[SI]Is Martin’s scoring enough for All-Star nod?

David West and Mehmet Okur were all-stars. So was Mo Williams. you saying K-Mart can 't compeet wit those guys?????

 

But your assuming all those foul shots he attempted he was shooting, half of those are over the limit fouls, and in these instances, the only reason he shoots it is to try and get an and 1. So just stop being hater, if its so easy to do what he did, why doesnt everybody do it too.

 

This is needlessly going to be my longer post to date.

Ok, I can see where you are trying to go with your nitpicking but it simply is not valid. There’s an obvious fallacy in your argument. Common sense dictates that statistically, you can’t count when a player gets fouled on shots as attempts.

I'll do the math for you, Thanks durvasa for getting me started though I wish I had JC Denton’s support to make some graphs.


Let’s check how your examples compare to Martin’s performance, using the True Shooting Percentage (TS% is not an exact measure but is great for what I want to illustrate)

The formula for TS% is this:
(PTS/2)/(FGA + 0.44*FTA)


Your first example is this:

Very well, in this instance, can we agree that you played almost perfect? Morey might even say that you were in God Mode.
(34/2)/(18 + 0.44*0)= 17/18= .94
Good for a 94%.

Your second example:

Here’s your fallacy: In your first example you account for made field-goal in contrast to a very specific set of plays named attempted shots [17/18]; and then in your second example, you account for made shots in contrast to others not so specific set of plays [you brought 25 of them]. But I guess you got fouled on 7 of those plays, it’s not your fault if somebody makes contact and interrupts, or even worse, whacks you in the act of shooting, is it? Can you be blamed for that?

Here it is with your fallacy omitted:
(34/2)/(18 + 0.44*14)= 17/24.16= .70
Still excellent for a True Shooting Percentage of 70%


I picked up your concern about there possibly being a “significant difference in efficiency.”

Now here is Martin’s performance from last night:
(45/2)/(18 + 0.44*FTA)= 22.5/24.6 = .91
Good for a True Shooting Percentage of 91.

Would you say it is closer to an exorbitant God mode efficient performance? Or is it closer to the dented one you are trying to paint of Martin’s wasted one?

Now how’s that for efficiency?

 

I'm not saying it doesn't provide information.

I'm saying it's not quite complete in the sense that you can take more possesions to score the same number of points, when it could appear from the box score that the number of attempts were the same.

In fact, as KevinMartin12 pointed out, even with points/per attempt (including fouled attempts), that doesn't capture the entire picture, since over the limit fouls can result in points without a recorded attempt.

TS% helps capture these types of fouls, but even that isn't a perfect measure of efficiency.

So even though it took Player A one less possession to score 6 points, he has the same TS% as Player B.

 

Not even in his dreams.

 

In fairness, even if you took his 13 made free throws away that game he still scored 32 points.

 

Forget free throws for a minute. He's still shooting 45% and 43% 3-point making 2.3 per game. That's amazing and certainly worthy of All-Star consideration.

 

TS% doesn't distinguish FT's from those types of fouls, that's why I said it's not an exact measure. Now when it comes to measuring efficiency, well that's just it's aim.

I see you're trying to escape to nano-proportions so I won't chase you any further.

 

That's because .44 is an average deduced from thousands of basketball games worth of info. If you're lookin at one game it's easy to modify the formula to be an EXACT formula.

Instead of (.44 * FTA) you make it (.5 * 2 shot fouls) + (.33 * 3 shot fouls) + (0 * 1 shot fouls) and you will see that the player who scored 6 pts on and-1s had a much higher TS%.

 

That's interesting stuff, I never knew where those numbers came from, repped!

 

I don't think this is correct. your making it .5 for a free throw, a free throw doesn't become worth less if you shoot 3 of them, which is what your implying when you use .33

Let me know if I'm totally wrong, not sure if I'm reading it correctly.

 

It becomes worth more, because it only took you one possession to get those three FTAs.

 

The .5 and .33 are conversion factors basically. How many FGA is one FTA worth? If it's a 2 shot foul then each FTA is worth .5 FGA and if it's a 3 shot foul them each of those FTA is worth 1/3 of a FGA.

And all FTA from technicals or and ones are worth 0 FGA because they don't use a possession.

 

Besides attempts and percentages, Martin is also efficient in using less clock to score his points with free throws, and 1's, ft's when in the penalty... just sayin

 

Rockets guard's move is the envy of the league

 

he's like jason richardson and mike bibby
good players but never an all-star

 

Honestly J-Rich should probably be an All-Star reserve this season based on the depth of East guards. Wade, Rose, Rondo, and then who? Richardson is playing better than Joe Johnson this year..

 

Well I hope Martin makes it. He's the only Rocket with a shot (not counting Yao who obviously won't play). I'm voting for him.

 

Maybe he just doesn't like superstars playing in the all-star game? After all, what is Kobe without FTs? Just some regular jump shooter?

The idea that getting foul called should be a negative makes no sense to me.

 

Is Kevin Love's rebounding enough for All-Star nod?