If trading, and plan on going even younger, what veterans do we keep?

Martin and probably Hayes due to others not valuing him.

 

We keeps Hayes and Martin.

Everyone else can go.

No need to keep Scola if we are lotto bound. For his sake. He's a competitor and doesn't deserve wasting his time.

 

Get rid off all the long term contracts (martin, miller, scola, and lowry) for draft picks, expirings, younger players, and start scouting the draft and future top free-agents

 

Of the veterans enumerated, I would keep Martin, Scola and Miller with the following rationale:

Martin -- a quality scorer when matched with another shooter/scorer/star.
Miller -- inexpensive salary for what he brings to the table in experience and production.
Scola -- my favorite Rocket despite his defensive weaknesses, but also the most tradeable since he has two young replacements in waiting.

Battier and Jeffries have nice expirings in case we have an opportunity to upgrade the PG, SF or C positions. What can you say about the Chuckwagon except diminuative. His salary is as small as his size relative to the positions he plays, but he fits on no team other than the Rockets. As a 12th man on the active roster, I'll take him.

 

I think before we can even begin discussing trades/getting younger, we have to begin honestly appraising the talent on this team. As fans of the Rockets, we're all prone to homerism, and as a result we often value our players more than others in the league do.

Jordan Hill, for example, probably wont get much by way of free agency. The fact he was a #8 overall pick will help him slightly, but not much. Same goes for Budinger. In cases like this, its probably worth keeping them on the roster as they'll bring more value to us as backups versus what they can get on the open market.

Our most prized pieces will likely be Patterson, Martin (inflated statistics help his cause...), and Scola. Brooks probably holds some value after getting the MIP, but not as much as any of the three above. Expiring contracts of Jeffries and Yao also hold value for teams in a money crunch.

Based on the above, I simply dont see the Rockets making the type of splash in the trade market that many of us are hoping for. The best course of action might be staying put, incrementally upgrading this team until we assemble enough pieces to trade for bigger named players, and that might still be a season away....Anyways, just my 2 cents.

 

Exactly, the draw here is Gordon - don't expect anything out of Davis. The two things you assume in this trade scenario is we won't be willing to pay market value for Aaron at season's end and that you hope Gordon makes a jump developmentally to an elite scorer which is a risk but I would say as an under the radar type guy, he's as good a risk as you could take. I mean we are looking for a 4th quarter closer and Gordon is a decent fit in that role, provides similar numbers to Martin AND is healthier. If Gordon doesn't make a developmental jump, you still have a healthier version of Martin. Yes, you likely lose one of our younger guys but in a way that works out because we literally have good players wasting away on our bench because there isn't enough room in the rotation for everyone to get quality minutes.

As for Deandre Jordan/Chris Kaman, I would take them too but I figure Sterling hates Kaman too but would rather get rid of Baron and a deal involving BOTH Kaman and Baron would be unlikely given their contracts unless a 3rd team is involved. Jordan I assume the Clippers wouldn't be stupid enough to let go off because he is young and serviceable and literally Kaman and Jordan are their only centers.

 

I think your right to a degree but I believe Houston's players are of value to teams looking to make a leap to contenders. In a way Houston has the absolute best collection of role players in the league and they are all on decent contracts. The problem is those types of teams rarely have something of value in return besides cap relief. That's why I think if there would be some trade action, Houston is more likely to be involved in a 3 team deal where Houston gets the talent from team A, ships talent to borderline contending team B, and that team provides to the pieces to satisfy team A. The reason we haven't seen a lot of action to date is I think the Melo piece has to fall first. I don't think Morey is going to do anything significant until he finds out definitely he won't be involved in a Melo trade. I'm actually thinking that the likely result is Morey IS involved in a Melo trade but we don't get Melo - rather Houston helps facilitate a trade and gets some other valuable piece instead(likely picks).

 

I think the secret is out on Hayes and how effective he can be when paired with a scoring big man. If you put him on Miami next to Bosh, or NY next to Amare...etc.

 

But that's what doesnt make any sense to me. Why would you trade away valuable trading chips in Martin and Brooks for ONLY Eric Gordon and a useless $30mil contract (for 2 years)? We got lucky unloading McGrady's contract because teams were desperate to clear space for a BIG FA signing, but i dont see that happening any time soon to unload a Baron Davis type contract.

We do have good players rotting away, but you i dont think it helps us now or in the future by getting rid of good players just for the sake of getting rid of them.

Aaron Brooks will be a restricted FA and Morey, as usual, will allow for other teams to set a price tag on AB - and chances are (if he isnt traded this year), AB will be back next year. AB's having a pretty down year, so chances are, his stock will be fairly low and will probably demand Kyle Lowry type money.

At this point, its clear that we need to make a move for a true, shot blocking, paint clogging big man. If it means to take on a bad contract, it needs to be for a player that WILL be able to contribute.

 

I can see that, and think you're probably right in that we're more likely to be a proverbial third wheel in a larger deal. Hopefully we do land a few valuable assets to take advantage of. Another issue is that our roster is coming close to the point of saturation...how long can the glutton of above average-but unspectacular players continue?

 

I think everyone is expendable for the right price. Battier is on the decline, so I think it would be smart to trade him now while he still has some value.

 

1. Battier
2. Hayes
3. Scola
4. Martin

All others are expendable......

Battier and Hayes for their leadership by example, which will be needed to develop our projected core. Scola and Martin because they will still be productive starters when most members of our core reach their prime in about 3 to 4 years. I say that Scola will be very productive well into his late 30's because his game isn't dependent on athleticism. He rarely jumps more than 4 inches off the ground on any of his shots, and his set shot will be the very last thing to go.

Guys like Blake Griffin, Amare, and Dwight Howard will decline very rapidly with age. Especially Dwight Howard because of his lack of fundamentals. His athleticism compensates for that lack right now, but when that declines Superman will once again become Clark Kent.

Guys like Tim Duncan can produce well into their 30's because of sound fundamentals. Scola has these fundamentals. Same with Hayes. Because his game is mostly a "ground game", position defense, quick hands, hustle, and brute strength, it will buy him a few more years in the league.

 

this is going to be Battier's last season.

 

I agree about the need for a defensive big, but I still think Gordon makes us a better team long term. Look at it like this - Gordon's contract expires at the same time as Baron's and Gordon makes a 1/3 of what Martin does with similar production and more reliable AND he has a higher ceiling. Martin isn't going to get much better than he is right now. When you figure Brook's raise this year, AB and Martin will likely be making about $16k between them this year which is around what Davis/Gordon will cost over that same time. AB is more productive than Davis but I think at this point we have seen Lowry can run this team and I think Davis is good enough to be a backup PG and if he could get in shape, might even get some more minutes.

...I guess the key to what you think of that deal is what you think of Gordon. I think he is going to be an all star at some point - he's seriously flying under the radar. To me, it's worth taking the last 2 years of Davis' contract if your getting a 22yr old future all star. I would like to squeeze something else out of the Clippers in that deal(picks ideally) but I don't see them going for that. I also read that there was some talk of the NBA reducing existing player contracts down by a percentage across the board in the new CBA so that's a possibility although it is relative and Davis will still be a bad contract unless he gets in shape. Besides, we haven't paid Yao's contract in two years. Basically the owner has been pocketing 16k each year. I can totally see your point but I think Gordon's got enough potential you take the risk.

 

I think Hayes and Battier could be useful in the coming years on smaller contracts at the vet min. You do need a good mix of veterans in the locker room, especially if you are taking risks on young players like TWilliams.

As far as trades go THIS SEASON, everyone is expendible at the RIGHT PRICE. That includes Scola, Martin, Brooks, Battier, Hayes, and everyone else.

Hayes and Battier are more than likely to accept the situation and sign in the offseason if there is a chance for PT back with the Rockets next season.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Scola get moved because he is the best trading piece the Rockets have at the moment. Brooks will be harder to move than you would think because he is about to become a restricted free agency after the season.

As far as expiring contracts that the Rockets have of value... #1 is Yao, #2 is Battier, and #3 is Jefferies. Battier might very well be with the team the remainder of the season anyways. Chuck Hayes has more trade value at the moment.

Believe me, those guys understand where to team needs to move, and as long as they dont have to suffer half a season in NBA Siberia (Minnesota), they wouldn't mind coming back in free agency.

 

Kevin Martin's contract is very reasonable and a very good value for the production he gives us. Trading him for Gordon and Davis' boat anchor contract for the next 2 1/2 years makes no sense. Davis makes over $13 million. You are not trading Martin for a Gordon at a third of the price. You are trading Martin for Gordon at a third of the price and David at four thirds of the price.

 

alot of typing for a simple response.....WHAT!! ......NOOOOOOOOO..

 

YEAH ON NBA2K11!! :grin:

 

I think would keep "Hayes" because he comes at a cheap price and brings good veteran leadership...

But outside of him I'd trade the rest of the vets ... to contenders for young players and/or draft picks..

 

Brooks will be making 2mil a year for approximately 5 more months. Then his cost at very least will be in the Lowry range of around 6mil a year - possibly a bit more. Let me break it down once more since no one wants to put the thought into this:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13
Baron Davis $13,000,000 $13,900,000 $14,750,000
Eric Gordon $3,016,680 $3,831,184 $5,137,617
------------ ------------ ---------------
roughly $16mil $17.5mil $20mil

Kevin Martin $10,600,500 $11,519,840 $12,439,675
Aaron Brooks $2,016,692 $6,000,000(est) $6,000,000(est) + a few more years
-------------- --------------- -----------------
roughly $12.6 mil $17.5mil $18.5mil

...Davis' contract stinks but I think the production of Davis/Gordon through 2013 and beyond is better than Brooks/Martin if AB is your backup PG as Davis would be here - and the cost difference is not that much considering how great a value Gordon is and again the gamble here is on Gordon still having some room to grow while Brooks and Martin are at their ceiling and Brooks is NOT a sure thing to return to Houston next year so the possibility exists that you lose him this off season for nothing in return. This is the classic loss leader business model - who cares if I'm not getting value on Davis if I get loads of value on Gordon and again, we have all seen that getting potential all stars under 25 is next to impossible so if you have the opportunity to land one, you do it even if it means overpaying for your backup PG.