what about poorly constructed videos that depict (and mention) gay sex acts? if a (gay) soldier in 2006 felt uncomfortable about it, how would he/she speak up about it to his or her commanding officer without the whole DADt blowing up in their face?
I've served aboard a carrier and I think this is horsecrap. Sailors are some of the crudest people around, females included. The XO was doing his job and probably pretty well.
seems like he wasting time and tax dollars making crude videos. I know nothing about serving in the military, but does it really resort to fraternity style hazing rituals?
I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but this says a lot. Sailors (and servicemen in general) are a crude and crass bunch. The women, too. You've got to be tough; have a thicker skin. By all accounts, a good officer's career is in jeopardy, if not ruined already, and this is a travesty. The people leading this smear campaign are a bunch of friggin' nancies.
Sometimes you guys are freakin' idiots. So very "nancied" Have any one of you EVER served on a ship, much less in the service? Does anyone here knows what it takes to live and work on a ship? ANY ONE OF YOU? I thought not.
Yeah, it's real "tough" and "hardcore" to make stupid videos full of derogatory content. Allusions to the crudeness of sailors is totally irrelevant, and probably directly the cause of trying to promote a bit more seriousness and respectability in the first place. Defending a crude video by saying "well, we're a crude bunch" kind of misses the point, I think. I wonder what Master Baiter thinks - he's another former Navy guy IIRC.
So what? So only people who serve in the military are entitled to an opinion? Only people in the military get to decide what is and is not acceptable behavior? The military gets a free pass when it comes to common decency? I'm grateful that there are people who are willing to serve, but a willingness to serve doesn't mean immunity from accountability when you cross the line. This guy crossed the line. He's getting smacked down for it. I see nothing wrong with this.
when you enlist in the NAVY do you have to submit to a noogey from your fellow servicemen and women? no one in the NAVY here was even embarrassed by this? just par for the course? if not, carry on.
I have not served in the Navy but once considered it and have friends who have including someone who served on The Enterprise, although not when Honors was XO. I know something about what life is like in the Navy on long cruises and there is a long tradition of practical jokes to break up the monotony of shipboard life. To keep a ship, not just aircraft carriers but even Merchant Marine, operating a regimen has to be adhered to along with sometimes harsh discipline. To keep morale up humor and irreverence is often used and there are a lot of traditions around that such as crossing the Equator. So I can understand why Cmdr Honors made these videos and on some level probably saw it as his duty as XO to try to keep morale up but as XO he still should've known better about when he might be crossing the line. Also as a senior officer in line for a promotion to Captain he should've been aware of the political sensitivities around anti-gay slurs. It might be different if he was just some low ranking officer or seaman but he was someone in a very prominent position. The bigger problem with Honors isn't so much the content of the videos but the repeated lack of judgment about the making and showing of them.
Several of us have stated this distinction but for folks who see everything in terms of black and white there is little room for nuance or shades of gray. I find this true in many of these D&D discussions.
Unless I misread the report, nearly all who served under him are defending him. That carries more weight to me than virtually anything else.
Your argument misses the point being addressed. They should not be defending him - the Navy has standards to uphold and a history to correct. Ask Allen Schindler how cool it must have been to hear anti-gay sentiments as he was beaten to a pulp (literally) by fellow Navy men. What you're advocating is the standard fraternity defense: "Yes, it may be a jackass thing to do, but we've always been jackasses, and the jackasses here support our fellow jackass."
Right. Because if there's one thing the military is known for, it's their supportive stance for those who disagree with superior officers.
wait...wait....I got it...hold on....give me a second. JACK NICHOLSON IN "A FEW GOOD MEN!!!!" what do i win?
Except as a senior officer his duty goes beyond just the morale of those serving under him. He also needs to defend the image and honor of the Navy. He knew what he was doing was controversial yet still chose to do it. Even though he said that the Captain and Admiral weren't involved as XO he should've have understood this would reflect badly on their command and the Navy.
I guess Honors lost his honor :grin: okay that was pretty lame.. The fact that the people serving under him all support him does not excuse his poor or lack of judgment. He made a mistake and did something that is not acceptable and he got punished for it. I was just watching Men of Honor (great movie) the other night and that movie showed racisim in the Navy from the top. Most of the men also supported their superiors but that doesn't mean its was the right thing to do. So the fact that the men here support Honors doesn't really change the fact he did something pretty stupid.
Two different incidences. You can keep reaching for a moral high ground here, but from what I've been able to find and watch of the videos, all I see is a whole big pile of overreaction. What I've seen is voluntary support from former subordinates. They are not bound to some secret agreement to come to his defense. If anything, their support for Honors could be harmful to them and their careers, if they are still in the Navy. So back at you. Honors is highly decorated and highly regarded. And yeah, he probably should have known better. Obviously, some of you think this makes him unfit for command. I disagree.
