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That is very arguable. TD's team was always well loaded and well coached. True that he was the best player on that team, but don't forget he also had Paker and Ginobli in their prime, not to mention hardnosed winners like Will Smith (lol) and Bruce Bowen. Compare that with the team Kobe had from 04-08, or even the team he has now. Imagine if Kobe had Gasol, Odom, Artest, etc in those dark years, he would've had at least two more championships, MVP's, and finals MVP's. Bottom line is that you can't argue a players greatness with accolades alone (a fact that LerBron fans seem use alot these days). What TD has accomplished was by virtue of his team as well has his own efforts. There will always be MVP's that come and go, but will there be another player to ever score 81 in a game, or make 7 game winner's in one season? Anyway, each to their own. I simply stated the fact that the majority of people will give the nod for Kobe ahead of Duncan...meaning that years from now fans will remmember Kobe as the prominant player of this generation, and not Duncan. To me, that's just fact.
The team that Duncan won with in 03, which knocked off LA with Kobe and Shaq, was not loaded. Parker and Manu were pups and Steve Kerr finished games. Duncan is the only one of the (Shaq, Tim, Kobe) to win without a stacked team.
I think this perception that his team was stacked has a lot to do with how great Duncan was. As Icehouse pointed out, the Spurs were not stacked in 2003 when they won the title. Yes, they had Tony Parker at the point. And they were so happy with him that they openly courted Jason Kidd that summer, after winning the title. Ginobili was a rarely used rookie backup. The other great Spurs role players were all one-dimensional guys. The defensive effort that team put in is what made them great, and it all started with Duncan. I realize that it's debatable which of the two will be considered the best (assuming you don't count Shaq as part of the same generation, in which case I think he wins easily). That's why I stated that in my opinion, it's Duncan that comes out on top.
At this point, I think it is down to Duncan vs. Kobe as best post-Jordan player. Right now, I think the title goes to Duncan, but I think Kobe can maybe catch him. Again, I will reference Simmons' book (which is amazing), and he has Duncan as #7 all-time. Kobe was #15 when the book was written, but BS said he would probably move Kobe to #8 if he won another title, which Bryant did last year. If Kobe continues to win, and gets maybe 1 or even 2 more titles, he will have a very good case. That said, Duncan's resume is very very impressive. 4 rings as best player on all 4 teams, great winner/leader, great stats, and good but not great supporting cast (debatable as to how good). At this point, I don't know that you can say Kobe is better, but if Kobe gets a 6th ring, two 3-peats, best player on 3 of those and very good 2nd best on the other 3...that's a good debate.
Two things to keep in mind about how Simmons ranks them. First, there's a good reason his initials are BS. Second, he said he would move Kobe up before he knew that Kobe would go 6-24 in a Game 7 of the Finals.
You have a record of saying wreckless things when it comes to Kobe, like how Kobe "whines" more than anybody in the league (Um, how about Lebron, Wade, even STEVE FRANCIS )...So you obviously dont like Kobe. Let's establish that But back to topic, Tim better than Kobe is laughable. Duncan has had his core of players almost since his rookie year, did Kobe? Duncan has had the same coach his whole career, has Kobe? Has Duncan went through a rebuilding stage like Kobe did? Did Duncan take a team with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown starting to the playoffs? Tim Duncan played in playoff series where his counter part CLEARLY outplayed him (Amare and Shaq). It's not even close lol.
Duncan has had the same core of players since his rookie year? I didn't realize that David Robinson, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, and Mario Elie were playing. Those were his fellow starters the first time he led the Spurs to a championship. The Spurs didn't go through a "rebuilding stage" because Duncan and Pops were good enough to keep that team winning 50-ish games every year as guys like Tony Parker developed.
And lets also establish that you have a shrine dedicated to Kobe's nutz somewhere in your house. Whose fault is it that the Shaq/Kobe tandem was broken up? Could that be the reason that Kobe did not have a stabilized roster for a while? Someone also please remind me what Kobe did all those years when he did not have a dominant low post presence?
Why does height matter when you can jump out of the building? And who cares if he can't shoot 3's? Neither could some guy named Michael Jordan.
It was simply a combination of Kobe and Shaq. But being ur idiot thinking, it's all Kobe's fault. The whole baseless "Kobe needed a dominant bigman" argument is typical of a Kobe hater. What Kobe needed was a good supporting cast (like every HOF in NBA history needed) and he's been winning NBA titles ever since. Magic is arguable one the greatest players in NBA history, how come nobody ever applies this to him and Kareem (arguable the greatest center of all time). Is Magic not as great because he had a dominant player? Where would MJ be without Scottie Pippen, another Hall of famer and top 50 player (none of which Pau Gasol is ) People apply a whole different set of standards for Kobe because they simply dont like him. Lol
Re-read my post and then comment Again, Tim Duncan is CLEARLY not a better player than Kobe. Not even severe hatred for Kobe can make you believe this, lmao.
Tim Duncan has anchored one of the best defenses in the league for more than a decade. He has spent a number of those years playing next to undersized players (e.g., Malik Rose) and soft foreign big men (e.g., Oberto, Nesterovic). Basketball is a two-way sport and Duncan has an enormous edge over Kobe on one of those two ends. Not even severe Kobe nut-hugging can make you believe otherwise, lmao.
Seriously. Only a moron would argue that a "rebuilding stage" was a positive for a player. Can you imagine prime Shaq or Duncan missing the playoffs, like Kobe did? Also, it's laughable how Kobe nutriders constantly bring up the fact that he took a team with Smush & Kwame to the playoffs. That team also had Odom, who is a better player than anyone on the team LeBron took to the Finals! And how about the fact that Kobe took a team with Odom & Butler to the lotto! LOL for this chucker.
if during duncans or shaq's prime, with only odom as the other good player on the team, and other key team members being kwame, luke walton, brian cook, smush parker, chucky atkins, i wouldn't be surprised if they missed playoffs like u said, the team had odom, but who else measures up to the team lebron had? smush is getting cut in the russian league, kwame is still kwame, walton is the guy with the "high basketball iq" but nothing else and other players of the same grades, these players were all no names before they joined lakers, by playing next to kobe, they were able to look like legitimate players for a while and got a few decent contracts how abt lebron's team over the years? larry hughs was a legit 20 ppg scorer, wally was still a good shooter, big z made all star, antawn was solid, mo gets laughed at for being all star but still a serviceable pg, gibson was a quick guard and good shooter, hickson is an athletic young forward, u don't think kobe would have loved everyone of these players over the team he had back then with exception of odom?
Kobe's teammates in 2004-2005 (post Shaq trade, ended up in lotto) were better than Lebron's in 2006-2007 (Finals). Caron Butler and Lamar Odom are very solid players in this league, ideal role-players for a serious superstar. But Kobe didn't have a dominant big to ride and "only" a two-time champion coach, so his true colors came out. Face it, your hero is an overrated chucker who has ridden the coattails of NBA greats to hang in this league.
