Steve Francis Subjected to Maoist Struggle Session

Really? Let's see...

1) Corrupt legal system
2) Suppressing freedom of speech, press and movement
3) Routine abuse and misuse of rural workers
4) Communist government controlled religion only, all other forms of worship unlawful and highly persecuted (ie: Christianity, Tibetan Buddhism, Falun Gong
5) Complete lack of political freedom or choice in the matter
6) Murdering of babies through one-child policy
7) Severe and unwarranted capital punishment
8) Torture
9) Political abuse of psychiatry
10) Mistreatment of ethnic minorities
11) Abuse of Tibetans
12) Unwarranted use of armed forces upon civilians

And there are a few minor ones I left out such as HIV/AIDS stigmatization and Homosexuality which are things that can be prevented or by choice but still abused.

Need I go on? Please, next time, don't come in here condescendingly telling us nothing is wrong in China. Plenty is wrong. If you don't think so start trying to worship Christ publicly outside of the authority of a government sponsored church in China. Or, start to publicly criticize Chinese government out in a public plaza. I guarantee if you do that for a little while you'll see Communist government in full action.

You can tell us government controlled capitalism has made lots of money for China and I'll believe you but don't make me think that's a country anyone wishes their country to be modeled after.

By the way, I see you have said nothing regarding the woman whose 8 month pregnancy was terminated after government officials beat the crap out of her and dragged her by force to have an abortion for breaking the one child policy. What do you have to say about that?

PS: Here a couple of links in case you doubt some of my sources. I can find many more links to other publications if needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html

 

Just repped you for telling the truth, I'll add more to your list when I can steal some time away from the family.

 

clos4life wow... u honestly think normal ppl in china are living in fear everyday and suppressed by the government?

its not that hard to google and youtube how regular citizens r doing in china...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bybccZFVrh0

in every country there r going to be extreme cases where some really F up things happen (even in the US)... but u can't just generalize...

 

christmas in china... there r plenty of other videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3hX9u1zs4

of course u will never see this on fox news... because china is suppose to be super evil and everyone is living in fear.

 

What part of government controlled Christmas don't you understand?

BTW, I'm so glad you pick ONE thing to link a video about. Tell, me what about the many others?

I already know the government has a special church that is permitted to attend if you are a Christian. I'm just saying, if you attend a different church other than the government sponsored one, for ANY religion, there goes your freedom.

Please, don't try to fool us into either arguing just one point when there are 20 listed. Second, I already know the Chinese government have altered Christinianity churches that don't theologically agree with most of the other Christian churches in the world.

Hey, want me to link you again the article where a woman that was 8 months pregnant was severely beaten, kicked in the stomach and then are forced to have abortions by government officials? What do you have to say about that ONE issue? You know, since you ignored all the other issues on my list.

 

China has a lot of problem ahead, especially with corruption from the inside out. I'm not going to list all the crap here, if you follow China you'll know. That said, the average life style in China has improved greatly. Clos4life, you should definitely visit China and hang out with some Chinese people there. A lot of Chinese people in their mid twenties to early thirties enjoy China a lot. Beijing and Shanghai have awesome night life and if you look hard enough, lucrative job opportunities. I've had friends that decide to give up a good job here to go back because there's the right opportunity.

That said, there's still a lot of corruption as I've stated above and I don't personally want to live there. But to say that the average Chinese city person is hating life right now would be inaccurate. Most people are too busy trying to run the rat race to buy a house, car, and be balling to worry about the **** government does (sad truth, welcome to consumerism).

 

P.S. just to send this into D&D overdrive. Which economic system do you think Jesus prefers based on some of his scripture? Just saying .

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Matthew 22 :


15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”
18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.


Matthew 19:

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.


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Now personally I rather believe in the key tenets of Jesus, know that I'd still be flawed (not perfect) but through his grace will get into heaven. But I think if Jesus saw the U.S.A. today, he would would not see a nation that is following his key preachings (do we really love our fellow men? aren't we suppose to love those who are truly sick spiritually and morally and turn the other cheek, are we as a nation doing that or become more defensive and divisive?):


Matthew 22:

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

As I have said previously, I don't have a simple problem with Chinese citizens. I wish them the best in all their endeavors. I'm just personally unwilling to sell my morals just because I have lucrative job opportunities and nice night life.

If you are willing to live in a country where such unspeakable and horrendous human acts happen to human beings then there is something wrong (I don't mean you personally, I mean Chinese citizens overall). People should stand up and do something about it. However, I understand why Chinese citizens are afraid to stand up to their government. Recent Chinese history demonstrates that if you do that the Chinese government will crack down on you severely. People will comply when they are threatened with harm unfortunately.

I will restate, I don't hate Chinese citizens. I wish them the best. However, I do despise their Communist government. Any people that's willing to turn a blind eye towards all the injustices happening in the country so nothing personally happens to them means deep down they are scared to oppose their government. Simple as that.

The fact people think it's ok to let all those terrible things occur everyday just as long as they are not personally affected means they have hard and cold hearts. That or they are just scared ****less of their own government.

And that's what's wrong with the whole thing in the first place.

 

This is all very nice. I'm sure Jesus Christ is totally cool with the killing of the children God created. I'm certain Jesus Christ is loving how those Chinese governement officials showed up, beat the living **** out that poor 8 month pregnant woman and then physically dragged her to a hospital where they murdered her baby agaisnt her will.

Yeah, very Christian government. I'm impressed. Really.

PS: Regarding all of those misused verses... those verses are meaningless when you take the individuals choice away from them. God gave human beings the freedom to either choose him or deny him. That's what got Adam and Eve in trouble in the first place. The fact your government is taking away those choices from the people more likely endears you to be like the decadent and spiritually corrupt Roman government than it does the coming kingdom of God. The fact that you tried to connect the two at all demonstrates that the Chinese government is trying to use their government Christian churches to control the populace, not to help them spiritually.

Your theology is quite flawed, you should study your scriptures if you really are interested. Don't let Chinese government Christian Dogma be confused with the values that Jesus Christ taught. They don't match.

 

I agree with that to a certain extent and I think thing's will happen that facilitate change (look at the internet out rage at the "my father is li gang" incident for example). However, my point is that's it's more apathy to the problems than the fears (but the fear is there, I'll concede). It's not like the U.S. is not guilty of this either (patriot act and Guantanamo for example). It's not on the same level but it is human nature. People do give up liberty for safety, and we have to be vigilant to make sure we don't.

 

No, Jesus would hate the Chinese government too. I also haven't gone to any Chinese churches, and I'm an American and gone to churches here.... But my question was more around the economic structure. If it's a democratic government that respects human rights, and the populous of that nation have to vote for an economic system, what type of economic system would citizen (true perfect follower of Christ) of that nation promote?

 

Lastly back on topic, Steve Francis I wish him well. The dude was one of my favorite players. I remember reading the Chronicle the day we got him in debate class, I was ecstatic. Every remember what our PG situation was like before him? Ed Recasner started part of the season during the second championship. Mobley was our starting PG because we didn't have a good natural one. Matt Maloney signed a 7 year deal. So to see a guy like Francis playing for us, especially after the way the Raptors played us in the Stoudamire deal, it was good to give a good FU to a Canadian team. The Chinese team should just let him go out and ball.

 

Did I say nothing was wrong with China? No I did not, I said that it's not a country where you must watch your every step for fear of governmental reprisal. You are listing extremes and if they have in fact happened, then yes it's an atrocity that shouldn't happen on God's Earth.

Do I think China's perfect? No, which is why I don't live there, but when I do go back, I'm not affected and neither is my family. I'm trying to give yall my view on this b/c I have actually lived there, seen the people, talked to the people, and witnessed how daily life functions.

I'm merely trying to come at this argument from a different angle and just because I do, does it necessarily mean I'm a minion from the Chinese government sent onto clutchfans to dilute anti-Chinese Communist fervor? No it does not.

I am a Christian and I believe that the human rights abuses done by the Chinese government is atrocious and barbaric, but I must put emphasis on the fact that the abuses you have listed are EXTREMES. Does that mean I believe that makes it right? No. I'm just trying to say-the denizens of China do not face these atrocities on a daily basis, China isn't a backwards midieval nation, and all governments have committed acts that aren't so moralistic; some governments are just better at covering it up.

I must once again re-iterate to you clos4life, that I am not a staunch supporter of human rights supporters, and I'm not trying to condesendingly tell you there are no wrongs commited by the Chinese government. I'm trying to bring a different angle into the discussion.

 

oops, I meant:
I must once again re-iterate to you clos4life, that I am not a staunch supporter of THOSE WHO VIOLATE human rights supporters, and I'm not trying to condesendingly tell you there are no wrongs commited by the Chinese government. I'm trying to bring a different angle into the discussion.

 

Delta and Wizkid, I just wanted to say I see where you guys are coming from. We may not agree in all points and the discussion is a bit heated but I appreciate the open and honest discussion. I see you guys honestly care and that's a good thing.

Merry Christmas to you both.

 

thanks buddy, go Rockets. Sad to see stevie franchise get cut

 

back when Tito was alive, communism was cool in my country

 

Also it should be known that the US government is also guilty of many of the points that you have listed. I would be more worried about countries like Russia, Venezuela and Iran which by your list are probably more guilty offenders...

Peace out....

 

This is so not true.

 

Is it a surprise that there is such kind of discrimination on this forum? It starts from the so-called YOF. But Clutch never do anything about it. SO SAD! Stop label people by their ethnics, color and religions. This is a basketball forum, not a political one.