Feigen: Rockets would not give Knicks their 2012 pick back without lotto protection

you're right. AR is #14 pick. if somehow the pick falls btw #6 and #13, rox won't trade down the pick to get #14 w/o any significant compensation.

 

could it also mean there is another trade in the works or what?

 

If the Knicks accepted the trade under Morey's conditions, it would not have given them any more flexibility to trade for Carmelo.

 

ok i was typing something up, but i started thinking about what exactly that trade would mean.

so knicks traded us their 2012 pick with top 5 protection. in that rumored deal we would then trade it back to them with top 14 (lotto) protection? meaning we keep the pick if it's between 6-14 and knicks get it between 1-5 and 15-30? or would the knicks be completely waiving that top 5 protection and we keep it no matter where in the lotto it might be?

 

Morey is evil.

 

It doesn't say there was any proposed deal to trade them their pick back with protections. Morey may have simply proposed trading our own pick with protections (before the T-Will trade). Not sure if putting protections on someone else's pick is allowed.

 

I think Morey means that he intends to keep the pick outright.

From New York's standpoint, unless they can acquire another 2012 first round pick outright, they can't take back anything less than their own 2012 pick with no protection.

By rule, the Knicks CANNOT be without a first round pick in consecutive future drafts. Right now, they have a guaranteed 2011 pick (the lower of their own or the Rockets', top-1 protected); but they don't have a guaranteed 2012 pick (they only get it if it's in the top-5), so they cannot trade the 2011 pick OR their 2013 pick.

Even if Morey gave them back their own 2012 pick but with lottery protection (6-14) in favor of the Rockets, the Knicks would be without a GUARANTEED pick in 2012, so they will remain hamstrung in being able to trade their 2011 or 2013 picks.

Confusing enough for you??? :grin:

 

robbie380 and LongTimeFan, I think you guys missed the point.

The point is that DMorey won't trade an unprotected pick (and as Feigen put it, even if it's not our own one)

Taking that into account I think we would have had Randolph here if the Knicks pick was lottery protected.

Lastly, If Morey trades that pick back, he can't put any protection since it's not our own, some capologist can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I didn't miss the point, I was just explaining why the Knicks would not trade Randolph for their lottery-protected pick.

 

Bima, so Morey can trade Knicks pick back to them and make it lottery protected in our favor too? That sounds like further abuse by Morey :grin: .

 

Never mind.

 

ummmmmmm......yes

 

So the Nets had to include 2 second round picks, which could possibly be more valuable than a late first round pick because of the guaranteed contracts that would be involved for a player that wouldn't be able to contribute right away.

We get Terrence Williams, which is probably the player on their team with the most upside, IMO...

The Knicks wanted their pick back but declined because Morey wanted lottery protection which lets me know that the Nuggets are not interested in lottery protected draft picks.

Otherwise, why would it matter to the Knicks, if all they would do is flip the draft pick to the Nuggets for Melo anyway?

Now, the question is, if Walsh decides to change his mind...would or could Morey trade away another 2012 1st rounder? even if it is from another team.

 

To me it looks like we had our choice of a lottery protected 1st rounder to nets for t will or giving ny knicks pick back without protection for randolph. (cause theres is only protected if its the no 1 pick)

What do you choose?

I love T will and am glad he is here and think he will fit really well...but man...Randolph or T Will. Who fits better and who is going to be better. Thats tough.

Reallly similar talent but randolph is way taller and better rim protector/shot blocker and is like an oversized SF and T will is an undersized sf with better passing and better on the ball D. Neither can shoot.

Honestly I think T will will be the better player, but that randolph would help this team more...but both thoughts are based purely on potential and not substance at this point.

 

Maybe Morey can squeeze a future 1st out of the Knicks should the pick fall in the top 14. Not that a future pick from the Knicks would be worth too much, if Stoudemire and Anthony (should he land there) stay healthy and playing at present levels. But Morey's pretty good with late 1st round picks.

Too many variables, though.

 

Good analysis, as always. So what Morey could have done, however, is give the 2012 pick back, but retain an option to swap picks in 2012 (just like the option on the 2011 pick)? As such, there would be some built-in lottery protection, if the Knicks take a dive in 2011 (Amare injury, etc.).

Of course, this is a moot point now that we conditionally traded away our 2012 pick. But maybe this was the Morey offer to NY for AR before he did the deal with NJ.

 

So let me see if I got this straight, if Morey trades the knicks pick but with protections, the knicks are still considered pickless and cannot trade their 2013 pick?