Is Kevin Martin fools gold?

Not at all, but based only in statistical data the competition has to be take into account. The whole league has problems with the elite pg's.

 

What I currently don't like about our SG situations, is that both Kevin Martin and Courtney Lee struggle to create in Iso situations.

Which is something you need from your SG late in games..

--RB

 

I think people see Gino and Parker drawing charges(easier to do when you got shot blockers behind you to clean up your mess) and assume they are playing better defense. They suffer similar problems to Martin and Brooks with regards to the perimeter defensive issues of today.

What gets me annoyed is how Brooks got caught watching the ball a couple plays opening night and folks act like that's who he always was and or will be. His defensive effort has usually been pretty good. But don't confuse effort with results. He is a poor defender, though not because of effort. Martin's problem however appears to be in effort as DD said in his OP.

 

We usually agree more often than we disagree, DD.

And for the record, I'm with you…that currently, Aaron Brooks is vital to this team as it's currently constructed. He can't get back into the fold fast enough.

But mental toughness is as subjective a phenomenon in professional competitive sports as you might encounter, at least from my perspective. I assume that anyone at a professional level in sports has a modicum of competitive pride, and has an innate desire to win. Most of the time, temperment is a huge indicator of mental fortitude. But winning in a team sport is as much about sacrifice as it is about responsibility.

The surest indicator most of us casual observers have to gauge "mental toughness" is in the results. That's even true of those who've made a living critiquing and scrutinizing everything from a player's eating habits to his Christmas shopping lists.

Jonathan Feigan responded to a question I asked him in his blog, after the Rockets (or rather, Tracy McGrady) had lost game 6 and the series to Utah in 2007. One of the terms he used to describe his feeling toward McGrady's performance was "…relentlessly determined…"

I always found this a bit odd, because a player's determination no more guarantees wins or losses than his sneaker size. Just last season, Kobe Bryant was "relentlessly determined" to carry the Lakers past the Celtics in game 7 of the Finals. He shot the ball horrendously, especially in the final period (although he did make a couple of shots), but had it not been for so many other things categorically out of Bryant's control, the Lakers might very well have lost that game and series because of Bryant's "determination".

I like to think that what Feigan meant in regards to McGrady was the fact that he was the Rockets' engine. Whether or not he himself performed well did not matter nearly as much as his performing CONSISTENTLY. The large problem with McGrady here was that he was too often a decision-maker and distributor more often than the Rockets could afford. McGrady was all-too often "relentlessly determined" to make the best play. Most times, the best play (or the only play, as far as the Rockets were often concerned) meant him scoring the ball.

Cross purposes will undermine teams as surely as bad seeds and identity crises or fuzzy blankets.

Kevin Martin knows what he does best. It's why he's so good at it. You might even say he's "relentlessly determined" to be the player he is.

But his team needs more from him. Different things from him. WINNING things from him. He has, at least in interviews, assumed responsibility for the Rockets' performance to this point. Saying all the right things and whatnot. Commendable.

But like you, I'll believe it when I see it.

In the win column.

 

I was just talking to a friend about Martin yesterday. I agree with DD on this one. I gave him a pass last year as he was getting acclimated to a new team and surroundings and feeling his way through. But I'm done with him. He's as worthless as Luther Head was once the opposition begins to apply a little defense on him. Refs swallow their whistles late in games and don't give him calls that he gets in the first half. Rarely does he go after loose balls. He doesn't "appear" passionate on the floor. And that's all on OFFENSE.
Plus, he's yet to have a "Rocket" moment. No game winners where the entire team engulfs him like he hit a walk-off homer. No key blocks or steals. He still feels like an outsider to me.

 

This might actually help Aaron Brooks as a starter, too, and may have been one of the reasons (outside of money) that Daryl Morey traded for Courtney Lee.

Lee is a balanced player—able to hold his own at both ends of the floor at either backcourt position—and has been that type of player since he came into the league. I agree that some players can blossom later than others (Chase Budinger), but by and large, I want the guys who can do the job as opposed to the guy who fills my fantasy stat sheets.

Lee is that guy. A role player who can play. What a novelty.

Lee can play offensively with or without the ball. He can defend better than any other backcourt player we have (steals are misleading—and aren't as important to team defense as positioning, which Lee does well and does consistently), and is heady and competitive enough to contribute in whatever offensive or defensive scheme you devise.

He's a glue guy if ever there was one. It's why he keeps finding himself traded. He's worth having if you can get him.

Nothing is certain as long as Yao's situation continues to be an albatross, but ideally, you need to get the best mix of players on the floor as often as you can: guys that complement themselves offensively and defensively. Courtney Lee isn't an all-league talent. But he has the talent play in this league and play well.

I wouldn't mind seeing him play extended minutes alongside Brooks and Yao, whenever they both return—especially if the plan is to try to right the season ship instead of letting it sink (which means Shane Battier would play more often than not—ugh)…

…ultimately, this season goes as Yao goes, rightly or wrongly…fairly or unfairly.

But accountability is as good a place to start as anyplace else....

 

Kevin Martin is a starting caliber role player, and that's it. He's a good starter if you surround him with at least 2 more talented players, but when he is basically your #1 option, you are going to struggle. This is exactly what we are seeing now with Yao and Brooks out.

Problem is, even when they get back, they are not clear cut better players than K-mart, so I just don't see a lot of potential there until we rebuild/re-tool with a new young talent or two.

 

I think Morey is kin to you, thats why you like hom so much

 

If you think he is your franchise player, then it's fool's gold. If you take him as your second or option offensively and can hide his defensive deficiency, then he's a terrific player.

 

AB is better defensive player than Lowry. Yes

 

There is a reason most Kings fans were happy to get rid of Martin. Go to a Kings forum and look at the posts from last year when the trade happened, they were happy and were listing the same reasons everyone here is listing now. Martin is what he is -- a guy who should be a role player at best and who has to be on the floor with a good defensive lineup that can cover up his mistakes/lack of effort.

 

Well said.

I personally believe this teams defensive identity was lost last season. We havent had an upper tier defensive team since 08-09. If anything, it points to the impact that Yao has on our collective team defense.

For one thing, he slows our tempo down. In slowing the tempo, the team was forced to play half court offense more frequently, and we developed a decent inside-out offensive scheme. Defensively, a slower pace played into our favor by allowing for team defense. Individual weaknesses were covered for the most part, and more times than not, it was the Rockets that controlled the tempo, not the other way around, and even teams that regularly played uptempo had to score in a half court setting against us, and more times than not, we had the advantage.

Take Yao out the equation and there's no need to regulate the pace. We became an uptempo team, and our personnel was tailor made for a different offensive set. This offseason and our personnel acquisitions have been made in an effort to transform this team into an offense that relies heavily on fast breaks and getting out to the open court....Whenever the pace goes up, the defense is bound to take a hit, and our top defenders lack the quickness to play strong transition defense, particularly when they're outmanned. Couple that with key players getting heavy minutes who lack basic defensive aptitude, and you indeed have fools gold.

Martin embodies this ethos- he racks up stats and has a great PER, but in real terms, his defensive struggles often contribute more to the outcome of games than his offensive aptitude. I still hold out hope that when Brooks gets back, this team will turn things around and work their way to respectability, but like you, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

...And this goes right back to what's plagued the Rockets from the beginning of the season, Easy.

Just exactly whose team is this, anyway?

Lets' take the Rockets' assumed ideal: a starting lineup of Aaron Brooks, Kevin martin, Shane Battier, Luis Scola, and Yao Ming. Let's put aside the ridiculous notion that a player who impacts a game for both sides as much as Yao would get bit-player minutes, and say that this is the team that would be on the court the final 8 minutes or so of every game, to decide it if the outcome is in doubt...

You have a backcourt who scores prolifically, but couldn't guard street signs.

You have big men who are just as capable (perhaps in some cases, more prolific) scoring, but couldn't outrun parked cars. You have a wing player who does just enough to not get in everybody else's way. Sounds like a winning plan, at least in your head.

Until you get them out on the court and they have to actually play the game.

Then all the things people may tend to ignore about a player (or more specifically, a player's ROLE or JOB) rear their ugly heads.

Poor point guard play. Disappearing acts from the wing players. Slow-footed, dim-witted or diminutive big people. And a mess of every other variety you can think of.

Why? My guess would be that, while each player does something good, none of them do it well enough (in the context of their overall job description) to justify allowing any of them to dictate the direction of a game.

If you want to focus on making sure that Brooks or Martin are the guys to manufacture offense, then your front line has to be able to do the dirty work (rebound, defend the basket...which is what your front line is supposed to do anyway). If you intend to focus on your big guys (Yao and/or Scola) scoring, then the perimeter defense has to be much better (meaning, strong ball-pressure and passing-lane defense).

Now, with what the Rockets might consider to be their best lineup (in theory), which way would you suppose the Rockets are best equipped to play and win, Easy?

Answer: neither. Why?

1) Yao is not healthy (and may never be reliable in that regard).
2) Most of your big people are suspect defensively.
3) Your backcourt and small forward are more porous than a seive defensively, which compounds problem 2.
4) a coach who has every intention of letting the kids figure it out on their own.

And we're wondering why the Rockets are struggling.

BTW, you ask an awful lot of questions, don't you, Easy?....(lol)

 

hahaha, dd you are one funny man. you act like what you posted about martin is actually news.

anyone who knows something about basketball could tell you what type of a player martin is some years ago.

martin is what he is and everybody should have known this. so stop acting like you've discovered some new facts here.

 

This team is in a rut because our only wing scoring option is actually Martin right now. He's not the type of player that can create for others. He relies on the defense's attention being on other players. Right now, he has Lowry, Battier, and Chuck Hayes (sometimes) playing along side him. When Lowry and Battier can't hit an open shot to save their life... it makes things extremely tough on Martin.

Hell, it would make things extremely tough on just about anybody.

Defensively, I don't think there is any question Martin is weak in that respect.

Here's the problem, in my opinion... there are two sides to Martin's defense. His on-ball defense actually isn't bad. Sure, he'll get beat off the dribble sometimes, but it usually happens in the 4th quarter when he's a little tired. Unfortunately, that's when we need him to step his defense up the most, but I just don't think he's capable of that.

His off-ball defense is very bad, though. I mean, all he does is follow the guy he is defending, and he goes to a complete stop anytime a screen is set anywhere near him. That's the part of his game that truly upsets me, to be honest.

 

See, I watch all the games too... And my opinion differs alot.

In regards to Martin, I think he is a poor but not terrible defender. I think he is much better than the board and his reputation indicate. I think he does lot of good things on D as well. I think he uses his length and speed well from time to time. Including an occasional stretch of good man D.

My personal opinion in the two defenders that are really hurting us right now are Scola (who is downright porous and also a terrible rotator) and even Battier. The only way you can justify putting a player of Battiers offensive talents in for 35 min a game is by having him be an elite defender. I think Battier has declined a ton and is getting burned consistently.

Kmart is the 2nd or 3rd best player on a great team. His success in that role would be predicated on someone like a Carmelo Anthony drawing the defense in and then getting open shots. Martin is being heavily defended right now as he is one of our few options. I am dissapointed in how Martin seemed unwilling to go one on one with Jrich last game. But I think for the most part he is not fools gold, but real gold in that I don't even think his contract is that bad.

 

Kevin is a great player. He can make his own shot. Defensively Idon't think Rick thinks he's mediocre because there was one time this season, i think it was against the Pacers where coach Rick left Kevin on the floor to play defense. I was surprised that time. Probably it was in prep for FT. But I'd rather see Hayes on the floor at that time.

 

Our defense hasn't been the same since we got KMart. That said, it's hard to just scapegoat him considering we've had so many changes. The team with Brooks-Martin-Ariza plus the bench brigade of KLow-Battier-Bud looked pretty good last year.

Right now he's our best scorer, but strangely enough he's not that great at creating shots for himself (perhaps because of his lack of handles), and he doesn't create a lick for others.

I think we need to do a better job getting him into good spots, because he is MONEY when he gets good looks. He's an amazing finisher around the basket, and when he shoots 3's it looks like he's shooting layups.

And yes, he's beyond horrific at D.