Israeli troops used 9 year old Gaza boy as 'human shield'

I'm not optimistic. I was the most optimistic when Rabin and Arafat received the Nobel Peace Prize, and I am well aware that it was actually an Israeli, not a Palestinian fanatic who murdered Rabin and it went downhill from there. That was such a sad day.

 

You ask very childish questions. I mean seriously there are no good guys or bad guys in this conflict, once you understand this, then you'll be more objective. It's a very complicated struggle which you can't really break down into generalizations about who is more or less civilized. I said what I did because of what you posted. I know you see Muslims as conquerors who want to take over the world and that is where the problem comes in...you see things with these colored glasses which will never allow you to be objective in discussing anything about Muslims. So it really is pointless talking to you.... and that is why most of my posts in response to you are mainly name calling, you Mauslum hater...........in circles we go. :grin:

 

And I'm pretty sure you're about as full of crap on this issue as you are on most issues concerning Muslims.

 

No, I was simply deducing from your post. You said what I quoted, just in other words: In your opinion, Israelis are currently more civilized than Palestinians.

 

Nice generalization.

What great rhetoric you spew. Two soldiers of supposedly the most moral army in the world committed a war crime and all they received was probation.

 

Under your shariah law view of the world, what should have happened? Hands cut off?

 

Life imprisonment you r****d.

I know, I know, you would rather gas them since they're Jewish and you have a duty to your Führer.

 

There really is no right or wrong answer to this. But in the end, it just comes down to this. Isreal's friends are Europeans and Americans. And we tend to hold ourselves to a higher standard, at least on the surface. It's one thing to kill thousands of innocents because opposing leaders hide in highly populated civilian areas. It's another to actually "use" innocents for your benefit knowing they're basically sent on suicide missions.

Hence it really just comes down making sure you keep things under wrap from the public. That's where we differ from authoritarian countries. That's why we need Guantanamo Bay, rather than oppressing people openly. That's why the news basically never talks about Iraqi casualties and damages, only American soldiers killed.

Basically, Isreal screwed up by not keeping it from reaching the masses.

 

I applaud the Israelis for trying these men but this in my opinion this is really too light of a sentence.

You are right there is a double standard in regard to the treatment of such incidents within Israel and Palestinians but at the same time if Israelis claim to be moral and civilized shouldn't they be held to the ideals that they profess?

 

Also just to add I don't think this is the first time that IDF troops have been caught using Palestinian children as human shields. If I recall correctly similar things have been done by IDF troops in Ramallah.

 

They did it all the time till the Israeli Supreme Court "banned" the war crime in 2005. That didn't really stop them from doing it at the end of 2008, early 2009:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...a74-4853-860f-0563725e633a/mde150152009en.pdf

In several cases Israeli soldiers also used civilians, including children, as “human shields”, endangering their lives by forcing them to remain in or near houses which they took over and used as military positions. Some were forced to carry out dangerous tasks such as inspecting properties or objects suspected of being booby-trapped. Soldiers also took position and launched attacks from and around inhabited houses, exposing local residents to the danger of attacks or of being caught in the crossfire.

Now, if a US soldier was doing this with an Iraqi, what do you think his punishment would be? A demotion with probation? Or prison with a dishonorable discharge?


In the al-Zaytoun district of Gaza City, Israeli soldiers took over several houses of the extended al-Sammouni family when they entered the area. As’ad ‘Ali al-Sammouni told Amnesty International: “I live in this house with my wife, my three married sons and their wives and 11 children and my four unmarried sons. My two nephews, their wives and 15 children were also staying with us. We were some 45 people in all. In the night between 3 and 4 January we heard noises up on the roof terrace and we concluded that the soldiers must have descended from a helicopter because the gate and the front door were locked and no one could have entered the house from anywhere else. We heard them banging up on the roof terrace but nobody could dare to go upstairs to see what was happening. We all stayed on the ground floor. At about 6.30am there was banging at the front door and lots of soldiers came in. They grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and asked about Qassams and I said we did not have any such things. They tied and blindfolded all of us – men and boys – and put us all in one room in the ground floor, together with the women and children. I asked them to let me get my dentures from my room but they did not let me. After the end of the war I found them on them on the floor, broken, like so many other things. We were kept there for a day and a half. We only had a little bit of food for the children but not enough. Also we did not have water. On the second day (5 January) my cousin Mousa and his wife and baby girl came to knock at the door after they escaped from the house of my relative Wa’el across the road, which had been shelled and many relatives had been killed. The soldiers took him too and tied him and blindfolded him and put him and his wife and baby in the same room with us. When Mousa told us that Wa’el’s house had been shelled and many relatives had been killed and injured the women and children screamed and cried and the soldiers came and asked what we wanted and we begged them to let us leave. In the end the army said we could leave except for Mousa and my nephew ‘Imad and they said that if the Qassam fighters found out that there were soldiers in the house and attacked them they would kill Mousa and ‘Imad. I asked again to fetch my dentures but the soldiers refused. I found them broken when I returned the house after the army left Gaza. We left on foot and some other relatives from nearby houses also joined us. The soldiers said we had to walk and not stop. My nephew Iyad was walking ahead of me and I saw him fall and I thought he had tripped but then I saw he had been shot in the left leg. I stopped to help but Israeli soldiers in the Jouha family house shouted to continue walking or they would shoot again so we had to keep walking. Iyad crawled for a bit and then collapsed. His wife and his five children saw him being shot and then crawl and collapse but they and us could not help him because the soldier did not allow anyone to stop. Further on the main Salahaddin Road we found an ambulance but they could not go to the place where Iyad had collapsed and so he was left to die where he had collapsed. The ambulance took Mousa’s wife and baby girl, who was injured in her hand, to the hospital.”

 

OK, fine. You think they got off easy. At least the Israelis try to act like a civilized people and that's more than you can say about the Palestinians.

 

Yes, but don't you get it, the fact that the Palestinians are not civilized is ALSO all the Israelis' fault, because they are depriving them of education and everything else. So whichever way you look at it, the Israelis are the root of all evil - at least according to the "logic" of the Islamist posters here. That attitude is not surprising though, given the fact that there seem to be many many people in the Muslim world who believe that all jews were given a day off before 9/11.

 

Using a 9 year old as a human shield is civilized? In what way?

 

Conducting a proper trial with someone who does something like this as the defendant is civilized.

As opposed to, e.g., sentencing someone to death because she supposedly "offended Muhammed" .

 

That happened in Palestine

I think you are trying too hard ATW. Give it a rest.

 

What do the Palestinians who send out suicide bombers and the people who sentenced Asia Bibi to death have in common? Anything?

 

The civilized part is in recognizing that it violates the standards of decent behavior and that's what the Israelis have done.

Palestinians specifically target Israeli civilians with the deliberate intention of killing them.