A California family is sueing Alpha Kappa Alpha Soroity Inc. for a hazing incident that killed two girls. One 22yrs, the other 24 yrs old. The two were reportedly on Sept 9 "blindfolded and tied their hands and their bodies and led into the rip tide of the ocean". Makes you sick right? One of the girls family is sueing AKA Inc. for 100 million dollars in a wrongful death lawsuit. What do you think? I know that their is still hazing going on in soroities and fraternities, but this is too far!!
Defintely to far. I never understood these things your pretty much buying your friends, and than you gotta be somebodys B!tch just to get in. Sure you get beer easily but who cant on a college campus. Sounds stupid to me. But i hope the family gets every dime they are asking for.
I agree 100%. Frats are just stupid- you have to "buy" your friends and it's like you are owned by them once you get accepted. It's like your life is now obligated to them. I feel sorry for the girls and their families and I hope they get every penny.
People who go by stereotypes are just stupid. I was in a fraternity just a few years ago in college and never once "bought" friends. Our housing/initation fees were lower than living on campus. I guess the people living in dorms just had a bit more money available to buy friends. PS - anyone who sues due to a hazing related incident deserves absolutely no money in my opinion. As an initiate I could have been hazed many times but I didn't let it happen. I had enough self respect to not let people do terrible things to me. I agree that hazing is stupid and reprehensible, and more and more national fraternities are trying to reduce/eliminate hazing. This does not change the fact that people need to accept responsibily for their own actions, however. Now I just have to hope the DaDa never reads this thread cause I have a feeling that he would agree with me and I would hate for that to happen.
You sound just like someone who was dinged in rush during college and is now bitter about fraternities in general. Nice blanket statement of ignorance. Were you/Are you in a fraternity? Do you know what it's like? Some of my best friends were in the house. In fact, of all the people I keep in touch with from college, 85% were in my fraternity. Hell, I met my future wife (still no date yet!) at a sorority mixer. Did I buy her? Did I buy my best friends? I loved my time in the house and often go back for weekends like Homecoming and such. I'll always be accepted back at the house, no matter how old. I personally feel sorry for people who don't at least consider fraternities in college. You don't have to join. Just see what it's all about. Regarding hazing, I view it as a necessary evil. By putting stress on a pledge class, you force them to trust each other and bond as friends (and, yes, as brothers). I saw several different pledge classes in college, and those who got hazed the hardest were the most tight knit. However, hazing for the sake of hazing is just plain wrong. If you put the pledges in ANY sort of mortal danger, you deserve to be sued. No questions asked. Pledges look to the brothers for guidance and trust, and to violate that by risking their life on a whim is absolutely terrible. If a pledge event doesn't teach the pledges something important about the house, their fellow pledges, or life in general, it shouldn't be done. Period. I know what other houses did on our campus during my time at college, and it makes me cringe. Sick and cruel with no discernible purpose whatsoever.
join a frat! rent a friend their for socially insecure people that have to belong to something to make friends. hazing is the dumbest thing on earth and because of this "necessary evil" 2 girls are dead. calling hazing a "necessary evil" is one of the most ignorant things ive ever heard
Is it true that some sororities will only allow their memebers to date fraternity guys only? Almost seems like a socialist dating system. BTW, have no problem with frats. I think there are nice frat people and mean frat people, just like there are nice non-frat people and mean non-frat people. Been asked to join, but too much responsibility.
I dont really think that has anything to do with it. The fact that there are initiation fees is wat makes the concept difficult for some people (myself included) to grasp. Think of how much richer you would have been if you didn't have to pay those fees. You can't be serious. You are blaming the victims for being "led" to their deaths. I'm pretty sure that these girsl weren't expecting to be put in a deadly situation when they agreed (or were coerced, perhaps?) into being blindfolded and having their hands tied. You're argument is paramount to saying that if I let someone tie me up, it is also okay if that person then takes out a gun and shoots me our beats me to death. BTW, I don't hate frats and do see some of the benefits they provide. However, I think these same benefits could be achieved through "non-greek" organizations, many of which are becoming mroe commonplace at colleges, I believe.
Riiiiiight. Sounds like you've gleamed all your fraternity/hazing opinions from movies. The right kind of hazing can be positive, believe it or not. The problem is, I'm not going to win this argument with anyone, due to the negative press associated with pledging and death/lawsuits/hospital visits/etc. The fact is, people view ALL forms of hazing as bad. However, I believe that if you put enough stress on a person (within careful and controlled limits, which is THE most important precaution), they'll emerge from it a better person. Look at personal training and boot camp (not counting Private Pyle ). If you do it right, I believe it's acceptable. Limits must be established, however, and under no circumstance should anyone's lives be in danger. Making blindfolded pledges swim in a riptide is pure idiocy. As is making pledges binge drink, fight, injure themselves on purpose, etc. Like I said before, hazing for the sake of hazing (especially if you yourself were hazed in the past and want to exact revenge) is just wrong.
i could not agree less...some of the very most confident and capable people i have ever had the pleasure of knowing were in fraternities.
I said it can be positive when done right, but I never said hazing was a good thing. No one voluntarily wants the stress associated with hazing. However, I know it promotes solidarity among pledge classes and brothers because I've seen the firsthand effects of it. In fact, in the old days, hazing was worse than it is today (ask your father about it -- assuming he was a member in college). Perhaps I'm just biased because my entire immediate family was in a fraternity/sorority in college (2 ZBTs, 2 AEPhis, and 1 lone Delta Phi).
Geez. It's just a phrase. Would you prefer "necessary not-good-but-can-be-positive-in-some-situations thingy"?
Well, you're smart, I'm sure you could come up with something. The fact of the matter is that many non-Greek people feel that hazing is something that is a ridiculous tradition that is only there to humiliate. When you call it a necessary evil, it doesn't help your side.
Yes, hazing can be good in some situations. Why do you think most of the armed forces do it (boot camp, etc. is nothing but hazing)? I'm sure most of your closest friends are those that you have been through crap with. Hazing is the best way to bring a large group of people together and get them to learn about one another...to bond with one another. This bonding is what makes fraternities a true brotherhood. Without it, you are just paying your dues to join an organization. As far as buying your way in because of initiation fees and yearly dues, what national organization does not have fees or dues? Furthemore, that comment there just shows why hazing can be necessary. Two of the biggest detriments to joining a frat are 1) hazing and 2) money. If everyone just had to ante up cash and not do anything to get in, everyone with money would be a member. I don't know about all the other frats, but simply having a fat wallet won't get you into mine. As far as the money goes, most of it goes towards the school or community as a whole (community service events, scholarships, etc). The money allows groups to put on programs and events. For example, at UT, if it were not for the black frats and sororities, there would be NOTHING for african-american students to do (when I say nothing to do, I mean activities centered around them/their culture). You think the school gives a lot of $$$ to these groups for activities? That notion changes a bit at HBCU's, but it's pretty common for black students at predominately white universities. I think my $300 initiation fee is better used that way then by me blowing it on beer or a new video game. Besides, the dues are not that much, and if you cant raise a couple hundred bucks over a yr period for something that is important to you, then ya don't really want it in my opinion. As far as the death's go, it's an organizations fault if their hazing activities injure people, but you still have to lay the part of the blame on the dumb ass that is being hazed, especially when college rules and frat/sorority rules clearly state that hazing (and it lists out all forms of hazing) is illegial. Clearly you know these activities can be detrimental to your well being. Clearly you know some people have died from hazing activities in the past. In most situations, you choose to be hazed or not. You don't have to be hazed...you can choose to get your crap and leave. Does your common sense tell you that being blindfolded by water when you are tired is not rationale? Lastly, let's find out if this organization had anything to do with the deaths of these girls before we go ballistic. According to the article's that I read, initial police investigations have shown the organization had no part in the deat's of the girls. We shall see..........
Nice stereotypes of fraternities here. I was in a fraternity.....and "buy a friend" couldnt be more unrealistic. There were guys who I liked and guys who I didnt. Most of our money went towards rent, band parties, philanthropy events, and dues to National. Besides...Elliot03, if my measley $400 a semester "bought" me lifetime friends that have stood by me at my wedding, supported me through family crisises, helped me build a house, and made me honorary uncles of their kids, then that was a HELL of an investment. We had pledge training but it was nothing like the movies, no squishing bananas in the toilet or being beaten or crap like that. The first thing we were told is that no one would be forced to drink anything and no one was ever to get naked. Our pledge trainer was a marine reservist. We worked our tails off, made sure everyone had great grades, did a hell of a lot of pushups, situps, jogging, etc. Yeah we did some stupid crap but it was all hokey....pledge bro gets kidnapped, go rescue him, then get revenge by "raodtripping" an obnoxious brother to Kentucky. Insecure guys? Sure, thats why everyone I went to school with is so freaking successful. Maybe they "bought" their way into a great grades, great interviews, leadership positions in their companies/firms/etc. Maybe we used our dues money to pay off the schools for special treatment. Don't buy into the hype. Fraternities are not all evil. There are jackasses in frats just like there are jackasses in any group.
Was it the skull and Bones that locked it's members in caskets and had them masturbate? Mateo, joining a frat would be like networking right? Sometimes, you get a job because you are in a particular frat, don't you? I'm not against it, but I don't think that shines a positive light in your favor. And to play devil's advocate, I have alot of friends who will attend my weddings, make me an honorary uncle, etc. Buy friends? No. I wouldn't say that. People in the same fraternity as you have common interests and goals, thus it would be natural for you to be friends. But, imo, my bonds with my friends are just as strong as your bond with your frat friends.
