I recently looked at Cat's stats on a per minute basis, and they actually surprised me. ppm 0.512987013 apm 0.084415584 rpm 0.116883117 Those same #s for Allan Houston 0.510362694 0.069948187 0.085492228 Oh, but Mobley takes too many ill advised shots. Mobley scores 1.26 pts/FGA, while Houston gets 1.27. Mobley takes bad shots, but forces his opponent to foul and send him to the line. btw, Steve Smith gets 0.455657492 0.076452599 0.116207951 with 1.35 p/FGA and Shandon Anderson 0.373860182 0.088145897 0.142857143 with 1.29 p/FGA. Kobe, Allen, and Iverson squash the minute numbers, but Kobe and Allen have a 1.26 and 1.28 p/FGA. Iverson, a true bad shot guy, has a p/FGA ratio of 1.14, but at his scoring clip it is excusable. This doesn't take into account defense, but it is nice to know Cat can score, rebound, and assist with some dream teamers. Anderson can rebound, defend and assist with the best of them. These are season numbers, both Cat and anderson improved their scoring as the season went on. Not a bad tandem. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
You didn't take free throws into account. Cat got to the line more often than Houston, which would make those times Cat was fouled shooting count as points, but not as a Field Goal Attempt. No stat is perfect. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
You need to use steals per minute, fouls per minute, those kind of statistics for defnsive purposes too. MAybe something like opponents points per minute when theyre on the court, etc. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
Stop the MADNESS!! Cat shoots too much, is streaky, and is terrible for team chemistry. His first step is overrated, his shooting too. Team should look for Derrick Anderson or Ron Mercer, these lottery picks, well before they sign some 2nd round player to a big contract. And Cato is 7 feet tall.
As you mentioned, defense is really the missing variable here. Cat came in with the second unit, when the other team's starter was either tired, or absent as well. ------------------
Another stat not to overlook. Mobley attempts more FG's per minute than Houston or Smith. And let's not overlook Mario Elie. His points-per-fga ratio was 1.29. He rocks. That ratio is better than Mobes, Houston, Ray Allen, Kobe, and Iverson. Let's get him. My guess is that it probably won't be too hard... Points per FGA is nothing more than an efficiency rating. It doesn't necessarily tell you how good or bad a player is and my Mario Elie case is just one example. Just because your points per FGA average is high, doesn't mean that you're not hurting the team by taking ill-advised shots. Some say the fact he goes to the FT line makes up for it, but I disagree. This stat has been discussed by me, HeyPartner, and Pole and several others in another thread. BTW, go look at Jordan's Points Per FGA numbers in his later years. They're not too much better than Shandon's or Mobley's. Who would you rather have? A 33 year old Michael or a Mobley, Shandon, or Steve Smith? BTW, we like to call the points-per-FGA stat the Pole Ratio in honor of Pole, our pseudo-illustrious BBS member who originally started the original conversation on the stat. ------------------ Just shut up and post
Dr, I know pt/FGA is an efficiency. That is why I also listed pt/min, the work load. The more a team relies on a player to score, the harder it is for him to score because defenses key on him. Houston and Mobley are relied to score about the same clip and have similar efficiencies. Houston gets to play longer, because he is a better defender and doesn't share time with Spree as much as Mobes does with SA. Mobley and Houston attempt a similar # of FGA/min. Smith is a much more efficent player than those two, but isn't needed to carry the team. Mobley is very streaky, but players tend to get more consistent as they blossom. From watching games, he seemed to be in control more after the half way point in the season as the spacing and movement on offense improved. Jordan Had an incredibly high pt/min, while maintaining a high pt/FGA. Good defensive performances against Jordan is usually when Jordan was forced to take a lot more shots than normal to get his 30, 35. Maxwell held Jordan below 1.1 p/FGA during the first 3 peat years. Elie pt/min is way low, because he doean't have a high work load. Iverson is the reverse. I would rather have a guy who is inefficient, but carries most of the workload of scoring than a highly efficient player who carries a near infinitesimal part of the workload. Kobe and Allen do both well which makes them better than Iverson. Smith takes about the same number of shots as Anderson. He is a better scorer, so he scores more. Smith was one of the better all around guards even tough he's a little slower, now. I would take Anderson in a heart beat over Smith because he creates more for his teammates, is one of the top rebounders at his position, and can play some serious D. btw, I have looked at p/FGA since about 1990 in box scores. Pole posted it on April 16. I posted it on January 29. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
Great response Joe Joe. I can't really argue with anything you said, because in the words of Francis3, "I agree". The "Pole Ratio" comment was in jest. Of course pts/fga has been used forever, and even before there was a clutchcity.net (yes, the Dark Times). Pts/min correlated to pts/fga... hmmm... need to find a way to tie those 2 together and maybe evaluate a player. We'll call it the Joe Joe Ratio. It even rhymes. Anyway, feel free to start up statistical threads; I'd love to jump in. It's fun to find something about players' stats that may be important in evaluating talent. Although stats don't tell you everything about a player, you can find some really interesting numbers that may make you think about a player a lot differently. ------------------ Just shut up and post
DoD & JJ, nice discussion, ya'll summed up my view on stats well. I am always looking for a perfect stat too (I think a hockey like +/- could be helpful), of course there will never be a perfect stat. In my view each stat is a snap shot of what is going, so you need to look a bunch of them from different angles to try to get handle about a players skills, but this is not a deductive process, I don't know how you can get the insight and expertise out of it. Further, current defense stats are really, really limited. On a completely differnt issue I guess some of my sarcasm (don't use it much) was missed, all for the better Cato is 7 feet tall. ------------------ "The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though."
SS, Sometimes you never know. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
Haven, You said that Cat came in against the second unit which helped his stats. He may have come in against the 2nd unit, but he always played most of the 4th qtr against opposition's best lineup. ------------------
