No, I see Kyle Lowry playing bad, and AB playing bad....and people blaming one guy because they want a guy that is more of a passer than a shooter. I get it, If Kyle was Rondo like he would be probably starting, but please stop that innane comparison, Lowry is a career BACKUP PG...could not beat out the likes of Mike Conoley in Memphis and has had 2 training camps to beat out Brooks, and still it hasn't happened. You would think that folks would be keen enough to figure that out. DD
So you trust Adelman's judgement when he plays Brooks instead of Lowry, but when he plays Hayes instead of Hill, he's making a mistake?
Completely different scenario....one is the starting PG, the other is for backup PF minutes....and development. Nice try of Wekko-izing the argument by shifting it into unknown depts of diversion. Roundabout Wekko......pass. DD
How is it completely different? It's actually very similar. It all goes towards trust in the coach's utilization of his roster. Unknown depths of diversion? I'm simply following the logical path you've laid out and running into some potholes.
To further your point, Chuck started 82 games at C last year under Adelman, and Hill was never ahead of him on the depth chart. In years prior to that, Chuck has started at PF under both Adelman and Van Gundy. He's been a rotation player for the Rockets for a very long time -- very experienced in that capacity, and the two different coaching staffs that have been here have appreciated what he brings to the team. Now Jordan Hill is supposed to jump ahead of Chuck in the rotation because ... why? What has he done between last season and this season to deserve this promotion? I'll let the coach decide when he thinks Hill is ready to take over those minutes, and when he does so I won't gripe because I trust his experience, his track record, and his assessment of his own players. And I look at it the same way with the other players. I'm fine with Brooks as the starter, and I respect Adelman's choice to stick with him. If he chooses at some point to give Lowry a shot for whatever reason, I'll respect that choice too because it doesn't seem to me that there's that much separating them anyway. As fans, I think we tend to overestimate how much we really know about these players and how they fit in to what the team is trying to do. We're always trying to play manager, and challenge the decisions the actual managers are making. But, in truth, those guys know what they're doing much better than us, and they have a lot more information at their disposal. Its fun to play coach or GM on the internet to pass the time, but let's get real. Adelman and the Rockets front office know much more about these players than we do, and they know much more about who can execute their game plans than we do. They also know more about basketball in general. Basically, they're really smart in this field, and in comparison we're pretty ignorant. People need to snap out of their fantasy "We'd be WAY better if only I was in charge!" mindset. That's a delusion; very common for sports fans, but a delusion nonetheless.
the point is that when lowry is shooting bad, he still contributes a lot to the team, his PG play, his effort and hustle, his defense, makes him still able to contribute positively to the team. AB, not so much.
It would be a better use of the depth to switch Lowry to the starting line-up. AB and KM are high powered scorers. Having them both in the starting line-up will more times than not cancel one or the other out.
granted it was Kyle's first game but I am going to go with the point guard who has over his career has a better assist to turnover ratio than brooks in the same amount of time basically (AB averages 26 mins/game KL 23 mins) but lets not forget the 7 rebounds Lowry got..3 of which were offensive rebounds which meant extra possessions for his team so he turned the ball over 3 times but also got them 3 extra possessions so you can say that those two factors could cancel each other out...Also one of the turnovers that was attributed to Kyle was actually a bad call...the ball went off of JR smith's foot but the ref called it out on kyle and in the replay its obvious its off of smith's foot...so in reality Kyle only had 2 turnovers in that game even though the box score shows 3 it was a mistake on the Refs part. Also Lowry got a charge call on Billups as well so he was able to create an extra possession for the team in that matter as well. So my my count there even with 3 turnovers Kyle created 4 extra possesions for the team..and if the refs got the call right there was only 2 turnovers for Kyle...Brooks did get credited to one steal so while he also had 3 turnovers he only created 1 extra possession for the team Kyle did shoot poorly and shot too many jumpers for my own taste in that game after he got drilled to the floor and had to get stitches it seemed that he was a bit hesitant to go back in the lane. Judging by what he has done throughout his career I dont think this is going to be a trend we will keep seeing Kyle will be back in the lane drawing fouls soon enough. Myself and others have been saying that its going to be hard for Brooks to adjust to a lesser scoring/usage role once Yao is back and Martin starts playing a bigger role in the offense...Scola also has improved too. He has broken out of the game plan and has shot numerous quick shots before the offense could be even set up, especially in the last 2 games. Hopefully the coaches rip into him good for this and he stops but if this trend keeps happening a change needs to be made...to me in the starting lineup when Yao is playing Brooks is the 3rd option at best..Martin is 1, Yao & Scola are 2a/2b and then its Brooks right now it doesnt seem he is adjusting to that well. Yes I did say that and the passes were late, I never said the passes were wrong but that they were late. Smith just walked onto that team and going through a summer of working out with the team staff, players and training camp i would have been worried if he was still making passes like that because that would have meant he didnt improve at all...I am still on the fence about Smith he is really fast, but he isnt much of a shooter like Lowry but doesnt defend nor draw fouls as well as Kyle. He has one great preseason game against the Pacers that isnt going to mean much for me at all. The staff is high on him but he still needs a long way to go otherwise he probably would have played more in the first two games when Lowry was out. Right now my hope for Smith is that he improves enough to be a backup option midway through the season..right now he doesnt do too well in a half court set he is great in the open floor when he can use his speed but in the half court not as much they both played bad but brooks' play in the fourth when the game was really broken up hurt the team with some quick shots and atrocious pick and roll defense that kept forcing the rockets bigs to rotate and the nuggets kept finding the open man (usually harrington) for the shot But Brooks is the starter for now but his flaws are becoming more and more glaring as the team lost three very winnable games due to poor defense and lack of proper execution in the 4th quarters...if he is trying to make a case for himself to deserve a new contract extension or contract he really isnt helping at all. Historically over the last decade MIP players have historically been some of the most overpaid players in the league. A former winner Monta Ellis gets 11 mil per year for 6 years and thats considering one of the most toxic contracts in the league and Ellis is by far the more talented player and much better scorer than Brooks while having the same exact usage rate for their careers. If 11 million is a lot for Ellis then 9 Million let alone anything in double digits is a lot for Brooks. Because right now to me Brooks' body language late in games has been the worst I've seen in his career here. I am sure that a guy like Conley getting a huge extension like that is not sitting well with Brooks especially when quite frankly Conley hasnt done a thing in the league when compared to Brooks. Right now Brooks is saying its not effecting him but his play on the court is suggesting otherwise. For the sake of the team I really hope he changes his attitude and adjust to the fact that he isnt going to be playing as large of a role in the offense anymore this year. Yao needs to get his shots, Martin needs more touches, Scola needs his touches, both Chase and Lee off the bench needs their shots. The last thing this team needs is to go more than 0-5 in this ultra competitive West due to fourth quarter defensive breakdowns from both guard spots and of course poor offensive execution -- this is the responsibility of the point guard to make sure the offense is executed properly and everyone is in their proper place when running sets but its hard to do when the PG decides to call his own number and take quick shots. With the Hornets and the Spurs up this team can easily go 0-5 to start the season and with a back to back against minnesota after the Spurs that game going 0-6 to start isnt that far fetched. If the team does go 0-6 and the same trend is being shown by Brooks I am going to be furious that a change isnt made because the way the west is going on a 6 game losing streak at any point in the season pretty much guarantees you wont get a top 4 spot and homecourt in the first round. heck a 6 game losing streak could mean you are going to be fighting for the 8th spot.
There is more to the role of PG on Rick Adelman's team than assists, AB and Kyle have very different skillsets. There is a reason that AB starts and Kyle backs him up, Kyle's performance is largely reliant on a 3rd party - the referees, if they are not calling his charge in and flail the ball at the rim, he is severly limited. I like them both, and I like the roles that they are both in, right now. This is all nitpicking, both Kyle and AB played poorly in that game, both took horrible shots, and made boneheaded plays, no doubt about it, and as I said, whenver they both play badly we lose.....but the people are focused on AB losing the game, not both...just AB, it is mind numbingly silly. See this is where we break apart, because while you are focusing on Brooks, I think it is more a symptom of the entire team. None of them are adjusting all that well to Yao being back, and their roles changing. Brooks is struggling I am not going to deny that, but so is Battier, so is Lowry, so is Miller, so is the coaching staff, heck EVERYONE...but people want to blame Brooks......Sorry, not buying that stock. Me too. Yes, bad TEAM defense.....no denying it...when Harrington gets left wide open we have a problem. But you know what is funny, if the team would have hit their shots, they would have won this game going away, even though you are picking points in the game to discuss, the fact is that overall they played fairly decent defense against the Nuggets, and the team lost because the Nuggets hit shots and our guys missed them. I mean our 3pt percentage was bad, but outside of a couple of them from Brooks and Lowry being stupid, most were wide open and good looks...if a normal percentage goes down the Rockets win going away. Three games YY....three games......and if they win game 1, we are not even having this converstation, and yes, Brooks gave up that wide open shot to Blake, but others allowed the Lakers back in as they were guarding Shannon Brown...or rather weren't guarding him. Historically means nothing in regards to Brooks....you can pick and choose players that were worth their contract and others who were not to make your case, but in reality there is nothing that ties that in anyway to Aaron Brooks, it is all meaningless fodder.....and irrelevent, each situation is it's own, and not related to the past in any way. Again if the TEAM goes 0-6, it is not Brooks fault it is the TEAM's fault....stop blaming it all on one guy.... Even JVG used to say that he had to introduce Yao to his team sometimes, to remind them that they need to go to him more at the end of games, and this was the FIRST game that Yao was in at the end..... Rick will do the same...sometimes players need to be reminded that they have help this year.......chemistry my man, chemistry... I agree that it would be disasterous to go that direction, but I am not convinced that blaming it all on one guy or making that switch makes any difference. Because like you, I also believe you need to win as much as you can all year long to position yourself correctly for this dogfight in the WC. But, unlike you, I am not blaming the struggles of this team on ONE player, I believe it is a team wide issue with trying to integrate Yao back onto the floor. They have 2 identities, and while you may be right that Kyle can integrate more easily at the jump because of his defense and pass first mentality, I think at the end of the day the team would struggle with him as the starter because as other teams adjust and force him to shoot, we would be even worse off than we are now. I think we are just going to have to let Brooks, and the rest of the team (including coaching staff) figure out how to find their identity. And threads like this one are myopic in nature..... Anyway, I agree with about 75% of your post so we are not that far off. DD
Dada, Your argument is that Lowry is severely limited if the refs aren't blowing the whistle. My argument is Brooks is severly limited if he's not hitting his shots because he does nothing else well. My arguement for Lowry is if the refs aren't blowing the whistle then he becomes even more lethal on the defensive end. Because he can then exploit the lack of whistle with more rambunctious craziness that we all know and love out of him. He becomes electric defensively in that environment. On the other hand, up until this year, Brooks doesn't seem to be able to get a foul call, even when the refs are blowing the whistle. When they stop, do you think he's going collect shooting fouls? Nope. Not unless he majorly upgrades his game. My other arguement for Lowry is the other guy in the backcourt, Kevin Martin..........has played in this league for 6 years and has made a living creating contact and getting to the free throw line. If Lowry's game is predicated on getting to the line and that is a bad thing because if the refs swallow the whistle it renders him offensively ineffective, then if that happens Martin needs to go to the bench too, in favor of Lee, a guy that can defend and shoot the 3 ball. This makes the need for a distributor even greater. When the refs start swallowing their whistles on a consistent basis, then we can make the case that it is time to do something different and go away from Lowry. But that's not going to happen midseason. The rule changes happen in the offseason. More often than not, under the current officiating structure, the fouls are going to be called for Lowry and Martin. Therefore, they should play and play big minutes. Now granted, down the stretch, the officials do swallow their whistles towards the end of the 4th quarter. This has to all be taken into consideration when putting guys on the floor. Obviously, in a tight game, down the stretch towards the end, where the whistle is not likely to be blown, you would want a guy like Brooks on the floor for the final half-court sets offensively to close the ballgame. You would most like to do a tradeoff with Lowry running D and Brooks running the halfcourt O. Or you may even play them together.......as has been the case oftentimes with Adelman. Once Lowry is healthy, if Brooks is not traded, I would not be surprised to see Lowry and Brooks again in the backcourt. But for the bulk of the game....................the odds are.............the refs are going to blow the whistle. That is history. When the rules change, and they quit blowing the whistle, then it is time to trade both Martin and Lowry lickety split. But Morey will see that one coming. The officials aren't going to quit calling fouls midseason. Your premise is false.
