True. It has come back to playmaker issues again. What we need is a triple threat guy. Martin is not good at creating his own shot. no wonder he sinks in 4th quarters.. We can obviously forget shane here.. that allows us with Brooks, who in fact has to the tools to be a legit triple threat. that is one reason i dont want to trade brooks unless we get some elite or legit young talent..
IMHO other players want to come to Houston as a business decision if they believe they can capitalize on the Chinese market.
I agree that Chuck should not be playing more than a situational role. Throughout the course of the game, his effectiveness goes down, but he is useful at the end of games when trying to get a stop (i.e. defending Paul Pierce at the end of the game @ Boston).
I don't mean to speak out of turn but . . .Chuck moving to defend and Athletic wing who is about his size [6'6 ~6-7ish] is different than an Athletic big man . . . 6'11 ish Rocket River
I believe the root of the problem is the players we have. Meaning that our roster as is wasnt the one designed to play the season with. I truly believe that Morey stock piled individual assets, expecting to trade many of them away during the last summer. At least that was his hope. Adelman I suspect is in a pickle. In the sense that their must be some pressure to play so many players. This logically would be based on the fact that if we shrink down to 8 or 9 in the rotation, 6 or 7 guys are rarely going to see the light of day, short of an injury replacement situation. Those 6 or 7 guys value will start to plummet. Thus, trade value to other teams is less. Im not claiming this to be the only force at work here, but a contributing one. The pre-season didnt seem long enough for Adelman to assess all that needed be. The rotations seem on a game by game basis. And while this could work on a team where everyone know each others game intimately, it doesnt on a team with lots of new faces. Typically, its easy to see the seam where the cream is, but this team beyond a certain point, is not so clearly defined. You have several players who on a overall basis are similarly talented and/or helpful to the team. Add to this a more difficult than average travel schedule in the preseason, and basically, we havent singled out the players that sit from those that play. Im finding myself defending Adelman on this point because this situation has been cast upon him and it wasnt the one anticipated (a trade).
I'm going to digest this post and leave emotion aside before responding.. but I knew that it's what you were going to write when you said it about four times last night in chat.
Chuck is a capable defender against opposing PFs with quickness/skill on the perimeter. Maybe you could make a case for Jeffries ahead of him, but he's definitely better than Jordan Hill in that regard.
What? no. I'm just saying Hakeem and Moses are comfort food to me. what? Are they prime rib to you? Robert Horry is definitely ice cream. Maxwell is a shot of whiskey. Barkley is the after party. Thorpe is a t-bone. Drexler is butter. I think Battier is salt....Coach loves him, but could probably use a little less.
Instead of talking about the individual players you brought up with your topic... let's talk about the heart of it. Your belief that Rick Adelman doesn't change unless he's forced to. That's the underlying theme of your rant about three players who are on your nerves right now because they are **** blocking the "young ones" from playing. I'll stick with only Rockets examples, though I could likely use some Sacramento examples as well. The defense gives the following as evidence to the contrary: Exhibit A: Rafer It was brought up earlier in this thread that Rick refused to alter his lineup until Rafer was traded and he was forced into the situation. Not true. In the last month before the trade was completed Rafer was injured once and that was where a lot of people believe that Aaron was given the reigns - coinciding with his first start. Not true. Prior to that Aaron was already receiving a great deal of time in the fourth quarter of games. He was playing with the starters to finish out the game - and basically given more responsibilities as the year continued. The reason - and this is opinion not fact - that Adelman didn't move him to the starter when this began was two fold. 1. Chemistry... moving Rafer into a backup role in name rather than in game time on the court would cause issues with team chemistry. Remember at this time we still had Tmac - who liked Rafer as his point guard - and he was familiar with Yao and Shane for on the court chemistry. 2. Defense - as we can still see, Aaron is leagues behind Rafer defensively. Rafer may have drove us crazy with his teardrops that caused tears and his low 3pt shooting percentage, but no one can argue that he wasn't a good team defender. Not necessarily one-on-one but he was a good pnr and team defender. Exhibit B: Carl Landry/Luis Scola If you will recall back in the day when Rick took over this team - he was given an undersized power forward he had no idea what to do with, a three point shooting power forward who couldn't play defense and two rookies... one in name only and one literally just out of college. He went into the beginning of the season thinking that surely one of the taller guys would be better on the court than a 6'6'' defensive player with no offense. Instead he saw something different. We weren't there in those practices, so who knows what exactly he saw... but he decided to use the "little one" because of his defense. Did he stick with this all year? No he actually watched his rookies get used to the game and eventually Scola started... once he did, he was there in the rotation. Not because Chuck was traded... but because he realized that Scola was ready to be in that position. The same with Carl. Once Carl began showing some semblance of defense and started working well within the offense with his teammates he moved into the backup power forward position. Just because he knew that Chuck was going to do whatever he said, he didn't just stick with the status quo. He knew that Carl was still going to make defensive mistakes, but he also knew that Landry was ready to contribute more on the court than would detract from the mistakes he made. He wasn't "forced" to make those changes... he did it voluntarily because putting those guys on the court INCREASED HIS CHANCES to win. Exhibit C: Chase Budinger Now some would say that Chase should be starting this season - but let's keep in mind he still can't guard guys like Carmelo, Kobe, Durant on a day to day basis as a starter. He has improved his defense, but let's be honest... at the beginning of last season he was terrible as both a individual and a help defender. But through the season he improved... he's still not elite, but he can get the job done well enough for short stretches of time. Last season he did not have to give Chase time on the court. In his substitution patterns he was running his two point guards together and had two good players (yes this is debatable) with Ariza and Battier to cover the SF position. But as we saw, he was effective on the court and TRYING defensively. Even if he wasn't always successful. Again, the benefits outweighed the cost of leaving him on the court to make some mistakes. Exhibit D: Jordan Hill All this hoopla is in essence about him not playing in these first three games. Coach gave him a chance last season. When there was really nothing but pride to play for he was given the opportunity on the floor to gain the coach's trust. Apparently, the coaching staff does NOT feel like his benefits out weigh his mistakes on the court. He had an up and down summer league.. and up and down preseason... and likely has up and down practices. He was given a chance to come in and contribute against Denver and instead picked up two quick fouls putting Denver into the bonus. As opposed to Exhibits A, B, and C whom, though they made mistakes, were all fairly consistent in the good and bad that they brought to the game. Aaron a little less so than the other three. My point is that Adelman is not opposed to playing people because they are rookies or one dimensional or even still learning.. he's opposed to playing people that he can't trust their benefits to out weigh their errors on the court. Your belief that he doesn't want to change is false... he would LOVE to have the more athletic guys in there, but until they have proven they won't have his team losing by 20 or 30 every night he isn't going to take the chance and allow them on the court. I don't blame him.
What does that have to do with anything? Chase is a more consistent player. Jordan has raw talent, but hasn't learned to harness that talent. The Knicks picked him as a project and he's still a project. I have nothing against either player... in fact I love the fact that Chase has carved out his spot in the rotation. I'd love if Jordan finally clicked and took over as the backup PF if it meant we were going to win more games. The essence of the post was that it's not about knowing a player for longer or knowing how they will react, it's about consistent effort and play on the court.
Hayes, the difference in what you are saying versus what I am saying right now is that all of those situations were different and none of them forced out of the rotation one of the comfort guys. As you say, clearly Chase can not guard Melo/Kobe or anyone like that, but neither at this point can Battier....but at least Chase can force them to work on the other end too, whereas they can vacation against Shane. Regarding Hayes, I love the guy, all heart, but he is nothing more than a situational player, if Chuck Hayes is a regular player in your rotation, you are not going anywhere, because as good as he is on defense he is just as bad on offense and is too short to play as a big regarding rebounding. Guys just elevate over him now....he is still effective in bursts, but not as a regular rotational guy, and while Jordan Hill is no braniac out there, he does provide a lot of what this team is missing, athleticism on offense and rim guarding on defense.....we need that desperately. Brad Miller has been horrible on both ends of the floor, outside of some nifty passes, he has been really bad. My point in all of this, is that our rotation is too big, and we need to rework some of the rotation by getting some younger athletes that can keep up with other teams, rather than slow as molasses players that are only decent in situations. Battier should be replaced more with Lee and Budinger Hayes should be replaced by Hill as the primary backup PF Miller should still play but Hill and Dampier need to play to protect the rim. All of these guys have severe weaknesses on one side of the floor and there are guys on the bench that are more versatile than them on both ends of the floor. DD
Let me be the first to say that I want to have Hayesfan's babies. The thing that you are saying is Adelman is an NBA coach. a good one. He has the benefit of seeing practices...we don't. We can get pissed after a game and say Hill solves all our problems, but what? No NY Knicks scrub is going to solve our problems. People on the BBS find that it is easier to say someone on the bench is better, I mean, how can we really argue that, when we have no evidence. To me, the evidence is Coach. I'd like to see DD sit down for Thanksgiving dinner with Coach and say he knew Scolandry should start vs Hayes before the glorious streak. I mean, come on DD. Try to tell Coach that Hayes and Battier's mpg are our problem. Tell him we should use Dorsey as 6th man, (uh, I mean Hill.) Hayes is on my team! If we succeed, he will only do like 12mpg. But I want him on my team for sure.
you are missing the point. We really have no idea what Jordan Hill is more than Coach. Hayefans is backing Coach. You are trying to be Coach by proclaiming Hill is the solution. Hill is not the solution. r e a l l y. You think so??! But it does make for a high exposure thread to increase reps.
I watched it again. Paid close attention to how we defended Harrington and what Chuck was doing on the defensive end. To answer your question, his defense was just fine. Granted, twice in the second quarter he allowed Harrington to drive left on him which were mistakes on his part. On one drive, Harrington got an And-1 at the basket (against that great defensive force Jordan Hill), and on the other Harrington missed a pull up jumper at the free throw line. More detail of Harrington's shot attempts (including a few bonus looks at Chuck Hayes' defense which the OP may have missed): 1st, 2:17 - Lawson drives right on Martin, Chuck sinks into paint to help. Harrington hits kick-out 3-pointer before Chuck can recover. 1st, 0:32 - Harrington misses a 3-pointer in transition, with Lowry switching on to him. 1st, 0:00 - Harrington misses jumper at buzzer, with Lee providing help on the perimeter. 2nd, 11:42 - Chuck closes in too tight, Harrington drives past him going left. Gets And-1 against Jordan Hill. 2nd, 9:12 - Carmelo Anthony ISO against Chuck. Chuck knocks it away. Another Melo ISO against Chuck in this possession. Chuck forces a contested jumper which Melo misses. Chuck's just a 1-dimensional low-post defender, huh? 2nd, 8:17 - In transition, Chuck has to pick up Sheldon Williams running to basket because Yao is slow in getting back. Harrington takes advantage by driving past Lee and Yao for the lay in. 2nd, 7:44 - Harrington ISO on Chuck. Is forced into a turnaround shot, which he misses. 2nd, 6:20 - Harrington against drives left past Chuck with a nice first step. Gets a wide open jumper at the free throw line, which he fortunately misses. 2nd, 5:30 - Harrington posts up Scola on left block. Misses a turnaround jumper. 2nd, 1:30 - Defense is confused and scrambling after offensive rebound. Scola/Miller both end up on Nene at the basket, losing Harrington in the corner. He burns them with a 3-pointer. 3rd, 5:19 - Scola double teams Melo who is posting up Battier. Ball swings to opposite corner where Harrington is stationed. Scola hesitates slightly in recovering, and Harrington hits an uncontested 3-pointer. 3rd, 4:25 - Harrington beats Scola baseline on a drive. Misses initial shot over Yao, but tips in the miss. 3rd, 2:22 - Harrington ISO on Scola. Drives left, with Scola giving ground and staying in front of him. Harrington misses the pullup jumper. 3rd, 1:31 - In transition, Harrington drives baseline against Scola. Battier and Yao are in position to help, and he misses at the basket. 3rd, 1:02 - Harrington posts up Scola on right block. Scola blocks the short turnaround. 3rd, 0:43 - Carmelo drives on Budinger and misses the layup. Harrington isn't boxed out by Scola and tips it in. 4th, 10:15 - In transition, Carmelo shoots an airball, but Harrington gets the loose ball over Miller. Brad fouls him in frustration. 4th, 9:37 - Side PnR with Lawson and their center (guarded by Scola). Scola steps out to Lawson and Chuck sinks into the paint to pick up the roll man, leaving Harrington open at the top of the key. Lawson passes to Harrington, and Lee is slow to rotate over. Harrington hits the 3. 4th, 8:06 - Harrington drives against Chuck. Hayes stays in front. Harrington takes a turnaround jumper, which he misses. 4th, 7:30 - Hayes contests interior shot by Sheldon Williams and forces a miss. 4th, 6:38 - Hayes blocks Lawson on his drive. Rockets score going the other way in transition. 4th, 2:57 - Scola gets caught on a possibly moving screen from Nene. Harrington gets a wide open 3-pointer on the wing, but misses. 4th, 2:30 - Scola doesn't box out Harrington, who scores again on a putback. 4th, 1:10 - Harrington hits a 3-pointer off the kick out from Billups. Scola was slow to recover after leaving him to provide help in the paint. I don't understand that, considering Yao was there and in position.
