Wow!! Krugman on China: "Rare & Dangerous"

And what shall the US do about their own tariffs on imported goods? Keep them while levy criticisms on China's tariffs?

Wait a sec, so you demand China get rid of their subsidises for REE mines, while advocating starting subsidises for your own REE mines?

I shall direct you to read this please:

China is sort of the assembly line and final production place of a good, rather than controller of the entire supply of a good. That distinction must be made clear.

And somehow you think those governments aren't already doing that?

You must consider this in the grand scheme of things. In 2 years time (i.e. 2012) both the US and China will be undergoing a change in leadership (well, potentially for US, already decided for China). Rest assured during that time, almost nothing will change on both sides. Anyway, you keep saying that USA has to protect their industries from those cheap Chinese good, have you considered that the Chinese are thinking 'We must protect and grow our own companies from those quality American goods.'

 

Yea thats just one industry, here are some similar issues we have with South Korea as well.

I think you misunderstood me, I am not saying China doesn't practice protectionism. Just that all of the Asian countries does it too, and China is far more open in allows US corporations sell their products in China.

 

If you are still not aware of it, you are one of the posters that I suspect posting from a mental institution. To be fair, I have to admit they include people from both sides. You folks just sound crazy to me.

 

You sure you are sane yourself?

 

Let's see. You've quoted some lines from a couple of pages back that you seem to think proves your "point." You've got to be kidding. Since you quoted a recent post of mine from the Nobel Prize thread without providing the context. I'll help you out, since you obviously need it.

In the same thread, you post:

The above is one of the strangest posts I've read in a long time. You attempt to provide excuses for dictators, the very obvious kind, as well as the "Oligarchy" that runs China, said oligarchy always being busy dictating to the Chinese people, as well as attempting to dictate to it's neighbors in the region, which may be a fine distinction to you, but not to me. Honestly, after reading the post above, do you seriously want to claim folks like me are being amazingly critical of others? I have to laugh.

 

Wow, somebody basically invoked the Divine Mandate of Heaven. Awesome.

 

One thing might be foreign concept to you, for lots of ethnic Chinese, including MFW and many others, and myself, we won't be against PRC government for the sake of against it. You can criticize PRC government as much as you want to. As a matter of fact, you are criticizing it as much as possible. Nobody wants to stop you and nobody can do so. However, we won't do that. We won't dismiss whatever they did or criticize them for every single thing. Even if it's something we don't necessarily like, but if it's good for general Chinese people in Mainland, we are OK with it.

Many native Chinese people have shared past experience on this board, including MFW. Many families went through extreme hardship during Culture Revolution. Every single possession of both of my grand fathers were taken away, including houses and other valuables. They were both sent to factories to do hard labor. As much as they dislike CCP, till their death, they still couldn't oppose everything of the government. Because they are Chinese. I have an elderly friend, whose father was executed by CCP, but he was still super pissed at the French during the Olympics. We are Chinese, and that's in our blood.

General Americans don't give a rat a$$ about Cubans, a simple dictator label can justify everything for them, despite worldwide opposition to the embargo. General Americans don't care about Iraqi lives, to them it's just a number. Saddam is a bad guy is reason good enough for them to do everything, no matter how much harm it may cause to Iraqi people. That's also why one-third of Americans believe they found WMD in Iraq. I am not saying I am a Saint that I care about Iraqi people more than you do. However, I have the self-concise knowing I am no Saint. I have the common sense knowing, that ethnic Iraqi people care about their own people, and NOT everything against Saddam must be a good thing for their people. I know that, because I have the same experience with China. With last 30 years of speedy development, problems and issues are plenty, but they must be doing something right FOR CHINESE PEOPLE.

You can criticize every single tiny bit thing PRC does as you have been doing, simply because that's a "dictatorship". We won't. Even Sishir won't. That's the difference between general Americans and ethnic Chinese. I may disagree with Sishir on some things, but he's ethnic Chinese, that's in his blood. He won't oppose PRC government for the sake of it.

I still remember how the fake story circling here, about Chinese government giving orders to bars in Beijing to ban Blacks entering during Olympics. It was a field day here for some famous/infamous residential anti-China posters. Nobody really cared about common sense, but happy to jump up and down and condemn evil communists. I am still waiting for the first hand evidence or any followup story for that. But you see, here is our difference. People like you, are willing to believe everything negative about something/someone you don't like. For the same action, if there is a negative spin to the intention or motive, if it's against PRC, you are happy to be on-board.

Not trying to change your mind, just I've seen enough over the years of the "China can't be criticized" claim once your point was debunked. After all this is D&D, I have yet seen anyone change mind on anything.

“To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.” - Henri Poincare

 

Strange that you would use the "example" of Cuba and Iraq directed at me, as I am on record here, many times in years past, and recently, as being against the Cuban embargo and for normalized relations with the country. I think the policies towards Cuba these last many years have been absurd. Do a search, if you don't believe me. I am also on record as being against the invasion and occupation of Iraq by George W. Bush before the invasion, and said so at the time, right here. Do a search if you don't believe me. You might want to check your facts before jumping to conclusions, simply because someone is critical of the policies, internal and foreign, of the PRC and it's Oligarchy.

As for what you said about Sishir, I wouldn't pretend to say for him what he believes or doesn't believe. He's more than capable of doing so himself. I can tell you, however, that my blood, to use your term, tells me that I am a Texan and an American, part Scottish, part Irish, and part English, with an ancestor's name carved on the San Jacinto monument, an ancestor who fought for an independent Texas. My blood, however, doesn't dictate to my head. I have posted numerous criticisms of the Texas state government, and countless posts here criticizing the American government, both the past administration and the current one. Do a search if you like. I'll continue to state how I feel about the current government of the PRC and its policies. As you know, we are free to do that here. It won't get us an eleven year prison term.

 

That article shows that nearly all of the issues with S. Korea have been resolved with the U.S. where as with China nearly NONE of them have.

That's quite a stark difference? More open? Hardly.


I see a lot of attacks of Deck and Myself for being "Anti-Chinese". That we criticize the PRC because we have nothing better to do.

No. that's not the case. Deck is far more balanced and fair of a poster as there is on this board. I can understand why people think I am biased, but him?

And for the record, I criticize the PRC because I disagree with the way they treat the Chinese people and their economic policies. I think that today, China has become the most imperialistic nation on earth long having superseded the U.S.

And I think the U.S. policy towards Cuba is just stupid and Iraq was even worse.

 

On a related note:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39889753/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets

China: Our supercomputer is faster than yours!
Announcement highlights nation's sharp increases in research spending

BEIJING — A leading Chinese research center has built the world's fastest supercomputer, an industry announcement said Thursday, underscoring the country's rise as a science and technology powerhouse.

The Tianhe-1A machine housed at the National Center for Supercomputing in the northern port city of Tianjin is capable of sustained computing of 2.507 petaflops, the equivalent of 2,507 trillion calculations, per second.

Put another way, the computer has 1.4 times the horsepower of the United States' speediest computer, according to Jack Dongarra, a University of Tennessee computer scientist. Dongarra maintains the official records of U.S. supercomputer rankings, with the U.S.' top machine at a national lab in Tennessee.

China's supercomputer "blows away" the competition from the United States, Dongarra said.

2002 was the last time a nation other than the United States took the lead in supercomputing, when it was bested by Japan. The U.S. reclaimed the supercomputing title in 2004.
A "single-day task" for Tianhe — which means Milky Way — "might take a mainstream dual-core personal computer 160 years to complete, working non-stop — if it can last that long," said China's National University of Defense Technology on its website.

The supercomputer is the "product of 200 computer scientists and two years' work," said Li Nan, chief coordinator of the university's program.

Zhou Xingming, an NUDT professor said the computer is "equipped with 6,144 Intel CPUs and 5,120 AMD GPUs (graphics processing units)," and was able to "store all 27 million books in the National Library of China four times."

The announcement was posted Thursday on several Chinese computer research websites. An official listing of the world's fastest supercomputers, the semiannual TOP500, is due to be issued Friday.

If verified, Tianhe-1A would be significantly faster than the current title holder, the U.S. Department of Energy's Cray XT5 Jaguar in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, which topped the list issued in June at 1.75 petaflops per second.

"This new speed achieved by China means we may replace the U.S. to hold the new world record," Tianhe-1A Project Director Li Nan told state broadcaster CCTV in an interview.
upercomputers are used for complex work such as modeling weather systems, simulating nuclear explosions and designing jetliners.

The announcement highlighted how China is leveraging rapid economic growth and sharp increases in research spending to join the United States, Europe and Japan in the global technology elite.

A 15-year government plan issued in 2006 promises support for areas ranging from computers to lasers to genetics.

Chipmaker NVIDIA, better known for designing plug-in video cards bought by high-end computer gamers, said the supercomputer is powered by more than 7,000 of its graphics processor units.

The company is promoting its technology to be used for purposes other than graphics, including supercomputers running simulations in astrophysics and other math-heavy tasks.

Seven of the world's most powerful computers are in the United States, with two in China and one in Germany, according to NVIDIA.

 

I find it amusing,

"let's start the trade war and make China's economy collapse" in this thread.
"give Chinese people their freedom" in another thread.
by same group of people here.

I almost believed they loved China and cared about Chinese people so much....no they don't.

 

Thread's over.

China Day Ahead: Rare Earth Embargo Ends; Sinopec Profit; Obama-Hu Meeting

China ended its undeclared embargo of exports of crucial strategic minerals to the U.S., Europe and Japan, although shipments to Japan still encountered difficulties, the New York Times reported, citing four unidentified rare earth industry officials.

Chinese customs officials, without explanation, allowed shipments to resume to all three destinations, the newspaper reported, citing the officials, who asked for anonymity because of the diplomatic sensitivity of the issue. Shipments to the U.S. and Europe had been blocked since Oct. 18 and to Japan since Sept. 21, the Times said.

Inner Mongolia Baotou Steel Rare-Earth Hi-Tech Co. plans to invest 2 billion yuan to 3 billion yuan over five years to accumulate reserves of rare-earth metals in 10 locations after a successful stockpiling trial this year, the Nikkei English News said, citing people close to the Ministry of Land and Resources.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...rgo-ends-sinopec-profit-obama-hu-meeting.html

 

Did I? Real_egal pointed out the hypocrisy in US foreign policy and American posters. Now, I happen to think pointing out hypocrisy in a world of self-interest is pretty ridiculous, but nevertheless he had a great point.

You called it mumbo-jumbo.

Karlfranklin noted that whenever and I quote:

And you replied:

That seems to me like, interesting enough, gasp, you did exactly what he suggested that you do whenever you disagree with someone? I couldn't have found a better example myself.

In the case of the Nobel Prize thread, wnes said Alfred Nobel must be rolling in his grave. From my posts in that thread, it's pretty clear that I disagree with him. And told him just that, that I disagree with him. What did you do?

Tell me how am I supposed to interpret the context of "pathetic," or "barbaric" or what have you? I provided the context here. Retort it.

But let me guess, the CCP political apparatus hacked your computer and did it?

Yes, and of course the United States of America is also dictating to its people, its neighbours. Heck, it's dictating to people half way across the world and pretty much all over. Oh wait, I used the wrong term. Replace "dictate" with "government" domestically and "dictate" with "ensuring freedom" internationally. Do I win the PR prize?

Lastly but not certainly not the least, for the third time too, you dodged the question again. Let's even forget your pathetic thread derailing whenever your pathetic excuse for arguments are trashed, you move in a different direction.

I posted 4 questions, here they are again:

1. What are you doing to protect the Chinese manufacturer from being paid the amount he was promised because the US is actively printing money?
2. What are you doing to protect the Chinese investors' wealth because the US actively printing money?
3. Why is the US dollar "too high" when it's down 35%+ measured against a trade weighted basket over the past 3 decades and down against all 16 major traded currencies because QE II is already priced in?
4. Why, if the reason the US has a trade deficit is because China is manipulating its currency, does the US have trade deficit with 90 countries in the world, most of which aren't "manipulating" their currencies?

And, I don't agree with TheBornLoser, but he said a ship China's size moves slowly. Of course morons such as yourself would call it brainwashed, but he's not the only one making that point.

Other than your typically pathetic "defending dictators" bullsh1t, do you actually have a reply to that?

 

I can no longer find the source, but the head of supercomputing I think at the Chinese Academy of Science is not letting all this go to his head. He said, it's easy to make 1 or 2 good computers, but the overall computing power in China is still MUCH MUCH lower than the US and Europe. He said placing 1 or 2 in the top 10 really doesn't represent the overall computing power. Only when China gets up there in those regards does he consider a true success.

Good for him, I think.

 

I will not reply to four "questions" that have nothing to do with my criticism of China. The "questions" remind me of Republican Party campaign slogans, where the slogans themselves are dishonest, not intended to be taken seriously, gross exaggerations, or a combination of them all. Your "questions" reflect your negative bias towards the United States, and you even more exaggerated bias towards the Peoples Republic of China. Answer them yourself. You've convinced yourself that you know all the answers, after all. You share that cloak of insecurity that is draped across the shoulders of the CCP and its supporters, you being a nice example of same and a terrible example for the world of the great country of China and its people.

 

Maybe MFW sounds like just the polar opposite of you? Your postings generally reflect negative bias towards China and exaggerated bias towards the United States. You share that cloak of insecurity that is draped across the shoulders of the king of democracy-thumping hypocrites and its supporters, you being a nice example of same and a terrible example for the world of the great country of the US and its people....

But hey, who am I to judge... someone called me mentally crazy in this thread... :grin:

 

Here we go again. I took the moment to highlight the key points of your "post." Let's get something straight moron, I don't profess to speak for the great country of China nor its people. That is as a matter of fact, something I've mentioned repeatedly, including in this thread. What I post does not mean **** as to your perceived "insecurity of the CCP and its supporters."

I don't support the CCP. I support certain of their actions and not others. I am in favour of certain of their policies and not others. I don't take a glove and try to fit it on all hands. Unlike morons such as yourself, I am perfectly capable of separating the conduct of the CCP in certain instances and others.

My question reflect a negative bias towards the United States? Actually no, my actions do not reflect that of slogans of the Republican Party at all. They are in fact, questions that ANY INVESTORS/COMPANIES IN ANY ECONOMY will ask. Are their investments safe. Will they be paid what they are promised to pay. Why are their products "cheap" when their competitors are not labeled cheap. Why they get the hammer when others don't. They're all very very legit questions.

There's no sloganeering there. They are the first questions anyone would ask. And yes, I actually want an answer to them. The fact you haven't bothered to answer them has nothing to do with that "I don't want an answer" and everything to do with that you pretty much do nothing but bullsh1t. And when called on it, you don't have an argument to fall back on.

And you know what else I often find interesting with your posts other than the aforementioned question dodging? That your list of "points" gets ever shorter and ever shifts. For example, I notice pretty much after I have no solidly proven that you engage in worthless ad hominem attacks (as supposed to logical arguments) when someone disagrees with you, that point disappears from your posts. Fascinating.