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The [ridiculous] love affair with Nolan Ryan and the Rangers

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by justtxyank, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    One thing that has made me sick in this whole Rangers run to the ALCS is the ridiculous love affair between the media and the Rangers/Nolan Ryan. Ever since the concepts of pitch counts and the caution with young pitchers came in to being, old school baseball writers and a lot of fans (largely the ones that hate statistics) have bemoaned the fact that the glory days of the complete game pitcher seemed to be gone.

    Enter Nolan Ryan in Texas. Ryan publicly talked about letting young pitchers just pitch and doing away with pitch counts. Now that the Rangers are going to the World Series, a large portion of the media and a lot of fans are saying it is that attitude that changed the Rangers. That Ryan empowered his young pitchers to just go out there and throw, pitch counts be damned, innings limits be damned. That formula equals success.

    Except there is a problem with that. That formula didn't equal success, because that formula wasn't used.

    Facts:
    1) The Texas Rangers led the major leagues in innings pitched by the bullpen
    2) Only two Rangers pitchers pitched more than 200 innings, CJ Wilson and Colby Lewis
    3) The "caution with young pitchers" argument is summarized by the Verducci Effect which applies to pitchers 25 years old and younger. It states that sharp increases in innings by pitchers in this age range from one year to the next increases the chance of arm injury. Only one pitcher on the Rangers had a sharp increase in his innings total, CJ Wilson. His was dramatic of course, over 100 more innings pitched this year vs any other year of his career. This seems to laugh in the face of the Verducci Effect, correct? No. CJ Wilson is 29 years old, outside of the range covered under the Verducci Effect.

    In summary, Nolan Ryan didn't do anything with the Rangers pitchers that should get him laud or praise or change the way we think of pitchers in baseball. The Rangers ran with a pretty common formula. Let your best pitchers pitch around 200 innings and let your bullpen pitch whenever they are needed. The credit for the Rangers success shouldn't go to some mythical change in baseball attitude about pitching, it should go to an astute general manager who made outstanding decisions to sign Colby Lewis out of Japan, get Nelson Cruz and play him, gamble on Josh Hamilton, get a fantastic haul in a franchise player trade (Teixeira), sign Vlad Guerrero to be the DH and then make a trade for a legit ace in Cliff Lee. The Rangers are in the World Series because their GM has been on an amazing run of good decisions, not because Nolan Ryan doesn't like pitch counts.
     
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  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Yeah...honestly, it's gotten to be funny.

    "We believe in having our starters going deep into games...that's our philosophy. We're old school.

    Of course...we never do that. No one used their bullpen more than us this season."
     
  3. Depressio

    Depressio Member

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    Damn LAMEstream media.
     
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Who cares, I mean those fans have suffered almost as much as us old Oiler fans.

    I am seriously in their corner.

    DD
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    this isn't about whether you're rooting for them.

    it's about how ridiculous this idea is that he has this team successful by working on a philosophy of making starters go deeper in games. it's not happening...not only is it not happening...they use their bullpen more than anyone! but they keep trumpeting this idea that this new philosophy is what sets the Rangers apart.
     
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  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    How cute. Thanks for your (usual) irrelevant post! Your opinion on the matter is noted. No further need of your participation in this thread! Enjoy your day DaDa!
     
    3 people like this.
  7. Blake

    Blake Member

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    Wow...good research. I had no idea that they used their bullpen that much. Maybe the media is harping so much on Nolan and his disregarded philosophy due to the fact that the Rangers don't have many mass appealing players/history (I mean, how many times can you talk about Josh Hamilton battling drug addiction?)

    But that's funny that they use their bullpen so frequently
     
  8. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Honestly I believe they are harping on it because a large section of the media hates the new wave of statistical analysis that is going in baseball and what it has led to. Things like the innings limits on young pitchers is the result of statistical analysis done on young pitchers who saw innings increases of dramatic numbers at a young age. It's not particularly "advanced", but none the less it is part of a trend of using statistical evidence to make, or at least help make, baseball decisions and it flies in the face of the "my eyes are King" mindset that a lot of fans, and particularly a lot of old school media guys cling to. They've seen a lot of their beliefs become obsolete over the past few years, case in point, judging a pitcher by his win total. They are still fighting the battle over ERA, RBI, etc. and are losing. I think they want the Rangers and Nolan Ryan to be validation of their disdain for the new age baseball mindset. What they don't understand is that Daniels, GM of the Rangers, is very much one of those "new age baseball men."
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Interesting take.

    I think it's because Nolan is so loved and respected, they WANT TO ASSUME that he gets the credit. So you build up this mythology about "old school tough" pitchers and impose it over a team that doesn't remotely reflect that.
     
  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Perhaps that's true, but Nolan Ryan isn't beloved outside of Texas the way he is inside Texas.

    I'll speak as a Yankee fan for a moment based on conversations had regarding the Yankees. A lot of Yankee fans have HATED the innings limits the organization put on Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain and have called it babying them. The success of the Rangers has been referenced on blogs as disproving the Yankees handling of young pitchers. Never mind the fact that the only young pitcher on the Rangers (Tommy Hunter) actually threw less innings and threw less pitches per start than Phil Hughes did this year.

    It's erroneous confirmation bias. They already hated the innings limits, fans have been harping on "pitch counts" and bullpen usage for years as ruining the game, and now they hear Nolan Ryan talk tough about these things and they just want to pretend it proves them right.
     
  11. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    Hell, i never noticed the starters going deep into games, with the exception of Lee on occasion...plus their bullpen is suspect...f'n media...making something out of nothing...

    Now there is a lot of love for Ryan up here...sometimes too much...Someone always brings up or shows the Ryan fight w/ RV...ok, i get it, he kicked his ass, but guess what, He's from Houston D-bag...
     
  12. toby

    toby Member

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    Which is Nolan's M.O. INTIMIDATE, INTIMIDATE, INTIMIDATE.
     
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    LOL

    Let me be clear that I actually have a man crush on Nolan Ryan myself and I think he is going to be a great partial owner of the Rangers. I wish he was in the same role with the Astros. I'm not attacking him or his so called philosophy, and who knows, in a few years we may find out his philosophy that was implemented at the minor league level is a good one. It just wasn't proven one way or another by what happened THIS year.
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    This "old school baseball people" versus "new school moneyball people" fight is solely a product of the media (traditional and web/blog) and fans and has very little relevance within professional baseball itself.
     
  15. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    Nolan may have some tips for how to pitch for the pitchers on the team...but he didn't build this team. The GM gets most of the credit for putting this team together and where they are now. Nolan gets some credit as team president...but the GM is more integral into the success we're seeing now than Nolan is. That said...the players really like Nolan (obviously) and want to win for him.

    In the end, they just got the right mix of players and Cliff Lee got them over the edge. Without Cliff Lee, the Rangers would be at home right now probably not having got out of the first round.

    Obviously, it's a feel good story all around that...just as soon as Tom Hicks is out and Ryan/Greenburg are in....the Rangers make a run. But, putting all that credit to Nolan Ryan is quite the stretch and I'm not buying it at all.
     
  16. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    I hope they win. I like having a low budget team whose players average less than 2 mil/ year win the WS.

    As for Nolan, he is the face of the franchise...I think he would be the first to admit that he had next to nothing to do with building this team/roster.
     
  17. rockets934life

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    I think Jon Daniels is getting overlooked big time by the media, Ryan/Greenberg have gotten to much pup over the purchase of the team.
     
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  18. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    agreed.....now that they are out of bankruptcy, and have new ownership, i could see him being similar to Theo
     
  19. AustinBriggs

    AustinBriggs Member

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    [​IMG]
    Nolan Ryans whats for dinner.
     
  20. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    a yankees fan whining about the media's love affair with a team?
     

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