In 05-06, Memphis had 49 wins. In 06-07, Memphis had 22 wins and Gasol missed 23 games. In 07-08, Gasol was traded to the lakers. I wish the mods would instill some sort of rule that if someone posts 5 blatantly false stats, they get banned for 2 weeks.
In 07-08, they were also on pace to 20 wins. Gasol was traded before deadline, by then it's already half a season. Shaq led Phoenix to 9th seed, 40+ wins right before trade. Anyway you want to compare success in history, or right before the trade, Gasol can't compare Shaq.
Shaq led Phoenix? The same Suns that had a recent two-time MVP on their roster? The same Suns that were playing deep into the playoffs every year until Shaq got there?
I left out the other stuff because your argument centers around Pau. This same Gasoft was a sissy man. If he was as great as you say he was, he would not have been called Gasoft. You mention the 50 win season...but you did not mention the back to back 20 win pace seasons that Goodbug brought up. If Gasoft was as great as you say he was, he would not have been 0-12 in the Playoffs. GaSoft earned his nickname prior to coming to the Lakers. He even earned it in 2008 when KG chewed him up and spit him out. Hell even on these same forums I remember laughing about "Gasoft's vag after the Celtics whupped the Lakers. It's as simple as that.
It's typical of Kobe haters to just make up something. I NEVER said that. TMac just made it up in his head and said I said it :grin:
Incorrect. If the mods installed your rule, you'd get banned for 2 weeks :grin: Gasoft was NOT a part of the Lakers in 2007. He joined the Lakers in 2008. In 2007, Gasoft was working on a 20-25 win season. :grin:
Ok, here goes. This is where you said the Cavs were good and could win without Lebron: Then I called you on that because the Cavs actually sucked last year without Lebron: At this point, you could have said "my mistake, the Cavs actually sucked last year without Lebron." Instead you highlighted the fact that the Cavs were able to win exactly one game out of six without Lebron and said: The above quote is key. This is where you stuck to your guns that the Cavs could win without Lebron because they were able to win ONE game without him (in SIX tries). Realizing how stupid your line of reasoning was, t_mac1 responded with: You then denied ever making such a claim and asked for someone to prove that you did, which I have just done. Of course, you're going to either ignore this post completely or make some ridiculous argument about how we're misinterpreting what you said. But just to recap, (1) you claimed the Cavs were winners without Lebron, (2) I showed that Cleveland sucked without him (14-win pace if they kept it up all season), (3) you said that shows they were still winners without him because they didn't lose every game, (4) t_mac1 called you an idiot for claiming a 14-win team was a winner, (5) you denied making that claim.
I said they WON with lebron sitting. And this is fact, they won 1 game wihout Lebron. I did NOT say they are a winning team without Lebron.
I did not claim anything of the sort. I said they "won", not that they "were winners" without Lebron. Where did I ever say the Cavs "were winners without Lebron"?
That is my exact quote. And it is true. The Cavs won exactly 1 game with Lebron sitting out. Nowhere in there is anything that says "they're a winning team without Lebron". I have no idea where you got that from.
If you look at any Championship team, there was never just that one guy, Jordan always had Scottie Pippen during the Jordan rings he avg. about 20 points per game, 8 rebounds per game, 6 assists per game, 2 steals per game thats a crappy teammate? thats just one of his players and Scottie was there all 6 Rings.... I love how everyone always says Kobe had a big man in all his Rings. Every great team that won a championship is always going to have a support guy. And if you say Shaq carried Kobe in his first three Rings you are stupid look at the numbers Kobe was putting up for those wins. Queen James had a team to win he just CHOKED! And if the leader chokes so does the whole team.... Which the Queen has done every playoff run and his one final apperance. You cant get the best Record in the league and then say i didnt have enough help.... But he now has 1 of the top 5 players and bosh you could be one of the top 15 right now. he is a coward and he run to have wade hold his hand. Again go watch kobe play D on The Queen on youtube and he plays full court on him and steals the ball goes back down and scores thats what would happen. Last note, have you ever seen James try and guard Kobe doesnt do anything, kobe guard James he cant do anything.
whats most interesting and credible than any of us, it seems that the majority of the players in the league who play with and against these two guys say Kobe is the best player. Lebron was actually voted in the top 5 overrated by a si player poll, and kobe was the person that they were most scared to guard in an si player poll, I think MJ said it best now they try to equate how good you are with stats and stats are inflated and depending on offense system, usage, and personell, stats change so its just not as simple as people like it to be i take kobe
Hey goodbug, have you ever heard of the 1994 Houston Rockets? That team only had one player that was an all-star. Also, Shaq didn't "carry" Kobe to the first three championships, but he was definitely the best player on those teams. Just like MJ didn't "carry" Pippen.
I think both players needed each other. No doubt Shaq was more dominant than Kobe. But that was only for 3 quarters. 4th quarters always belonged to Kobe because of Hack a Shaq. Hack a Shaq would have killed the Lakers if not for Kobe. So even though some Laker fans try to give all the credit to Kobe. And others try to give it to Shaq. I disagree with both sides, they both needed each other to win rings.
Shaq needed an all-star wing player, yes. But I think he could have won those championships with T-Mac, Vince Carter (ok, maybe not Carter), Ray Allen, etc. Kobe could not have won those first three championships with any other big man in the league except possibly Tim Duncan. Even in that case, Duncan would have still been the best player on the team.
I don't know about needing any wing. Shaq was great in the 3 quarters but was a liability in the 4th. Shaq needed a clutch wing. Somebody like Wade, TMac in 2003. On the other hand, Kobe's winning with Gasoft so he didn't need a Shaq caliber player. Gasoft before the Lakers wasn't even a Top 15 NBA player. I think he had only made the All Star team just 1 time before the Lakers but I'm not even sure about that. Gasoft was OK, but not like a Shaq, KG, Duncan type. More like a Boozer type.
gasol was an all-star w/ the freakin' grizzlies. that takes a lot. and he was robbed of other all-star appearances b/c he played for the grizzlies. gasol is definitely not on that level. but considering the type of big men playing in the past 3-4 years, gasol is up there. if you saw last year's playoffs, the only consistent player throughout 4 series was pau gasol. everybody else was up and down.
