You are right. As economies grow, they will grow slower. Same with the US... its economy will also grow slower vis-a-vis its size and the size of the Chinese economy. So the Chinese economy will eventually catch up even if growth slows to 5% to 7% per annum. If you guys elect a second warmonger who goes into even one more war (whether Iran, Pakistan or Yemen), then your economy is screwed once and for all. And raising taxes and spending? Don't know.. but what I read says that that is what the US should be doing.... raising taxes and spending to stimulate the economy. Who knows... maybe I read too the works of too many liberal economists :grin: Re currency, I'm long on the euro and shorting the yen. Not too bad for returns. I'll wait on the US currency until I see how the maneuvering plays out between US and China. P.S. China can print its own currency too..... :grin:
The US is already developed, so it won't slow down as much. Raising taxes definitely does not stimulate the economy. China doesn't want to print money at this time, that would cuase overheating and too much inflation. I'd be surprised if you're actually making money on your trades considering what you've said.
Stop kidding yourself. US pew pew everywhere all the time. Not suprising Americans would think the best thing for US would be the fall of PRC since they don't follow your lead.
I'll take that survey with a grain of salt. It's an international travel agency doing a non-scientific "survey", which means opinions, not hard facts. Earlier this year, a PEW research center survey found out that more Americans think China is the leading engine for the world economy other than US, do you believe that? plus this piece appeared on a Indian website. Cost of living. How can one list cost of living as an index of quality of life? I can live in a cave and the cost is almost zero so I have better quality of life? Health. India has no safe water to drink, No clean air to breath and Of Course no nutritous food for the masses. Malnutrition related diseases are rampant, underweight children and adults are majority of the population, unchecked price rise cripple every household except politicians and babus. That's exactly I saw in India, chronic corruption and endless Bureaucracy. Nothing can be easily done. Environment. China is bad, India is worse. The only ass India saved is because they don't have too much industry. Freedom. The difference is the Chinese just shut up and do whatever they want; the Indians talk 24/7 and nothing really changes. I guess the easiest way to measure which country has quality life is to ask those Foreign expats who worked in these two countries. I bet 90% of them will choose China(of course this is an opinion, not a fact) Final note, China never compares itself with India; India never ceases to compare itself with China. Why is that? Hell don't even bother to answer the question.Even you think india as the greatest, I am happy for you................................ And for myself.
LOL! The US is already developed, that is why it WILL slow down. My statement about China being able to print its own money is if the US switches on the printing press to push their currency down against the Chinese.... I think a possible Chinese strategy to deal with all this liquidity is to open another massive sovereign fund and go on another technology and resources buying spree overseas ^_^ That "should" reduce the liquidity in the Chinese economy... hopefully.... I am long on the euro vis-a-vis the dollar and short on the yen vis-a-vis the dollar. I think the Euro will continue to hold as the dollar weakens, but the moment one of the PIIGS countries gets into further trouble, I am exiting the Euro. Re Japan, Japan have been actively devaluing against the dollar. Been making money off their previous devaluations :grin: Just wondering what will be the floor for the yen's devaluation...
LMAO. I've read that article. Actually, I had a gut feeling that it was gonna pop up here at some point. The sheer ridiculousness of the whole article is really a monumental joke. But unlike yourself, I'll actually tell you why it's a joke, its assumptions ludicrous, its conclusions idiotic and that anybody who wrote such an article should not see the light of day in any self-respecting publication. Let's start with the most moronic argument, the demography argument, which I've already made in another thread. 33 years ago, the Chinese government made a distinct decision to control, and reduce the population. Now why did it do that? Just for the hell of it? Is it because unlike your warped little mind, economic growth is actually bound by real life constraints? Like it or not, China had to compete with the rest of the world for very limited resources. A boundless population as is practiced in India is sheer idiocy. Anybody with even the slightest ability to think critically could have told the population problem rests in India, not China. Whereas China can easily solve its demographics issue (if any at all) through the revamping of its non-existent immigration policy, India will not be able to even feed its own people without offing a significant portion of its population, which gasp, we've decided to be unacceptable. Heck, India is not even feeding its population right now. Its living standards will deteriorate over the medium to long term (even if they benefit short term) compared to their current pathetic living standards should their population growth continue. The second idiotic argument of the article was the entrepreneurial spirit in India, with its "45m entrepreneurs." I thought it was highly laughable. I had an argument with a Democrat support (GladiatorRowdy or something like that) in another thread. There I highlighted how the majority of the world's rich as measured by Forbes were self-made. Out of Americans in the Forbes world's top 100 rich list, 70% were self-made. If we extend that to 200, 500, etc, it grows exponentially. In China, China's riches are 95%+ self made. Yet the world's number is much lower. Only around 60% among the top 100 are self made. The drag? India. Out of the 8 or 9 so Indians in the top 100, only 1, the poorest, was self-made. The caste system is alive and well in India. So quite making a mockery of yourself regarding the entrepreneurial spirit of the Indian people, especially when compared to China OK, unless you want to make an absolute fool out of yourself. 45m entrepreneurs in India? There are several hundred million in China. The last funny thing is the supposed matching of Chinese economic growth by the Indians. It's really hilarious really. If you view a country as an entity, the GDP number really is the Income Statement, the annual income numbers. Yet the "real value" of a country as an entity, is its balance sheet, the net asset values. China left India in the dust 60 years ago. If India could match China's break-neck economic growth (which it hasn't show it can) AND assume that China stands still, it would take at least 60 years to match China. And through higher "income," China is adding to that balance sheet far faster than India. The most laughable of all is that India's supposed 9.5% growth will match China's supposed 9.5%. Well, China's "economy," as measured by annual "income" is more than 3 times that of India. Hmmmm, 9.5% of $100 and 9.5% of $300, whichever will I take? Hey, how about this, I've got an excellent investment opportunity for you. I've give you 100,000,000% of $0 and you give me 1% of $1. Fair? All of this is of course, assuming that India sustains a 9.5% annual economic growth, a target it has NEVER reached, and one in which the Economist NEVER indicated on what basis it would reach. It just kind of assumed it would happen. But then again, the Economist stopped pretending to be a legitimate economic publication long ago now didn't it? It's been calling for the impending economic collapse of China for what, four decades now? Looks like we'll have to shift out the deadline again. Hey, I've heard it so many times I'll give you the standard the Economist template. Drum rolls: "Mr. Random Name looks out the window. "This used to be a swamp/garbage dump/slum, but now we've got this brand spankin' new 3 story build." These are great potential of random sh1thole country XYZ. Previous its government was blah blah blah, but no more. Country XYZ is getting its act together. Now the economy is booming, growing 9% (Note: incidentally so is Ethiopia for several years, one of the poorest countries in the world, but gets no story. I think they're being shafted). Filled with potential, country XYZ will soon overtake China/America/anybody who's anybody. List of idiotic and completely irrelevant challenges as supposed to the real challenges (such as that Country XYZ is still a sh1thole and will remain so in the future). Gloss the reason why Country XYZ is a sh1thole. Yes country XYZ will have a long way to go, but Mr. Random Name is confident. Some dumbass quote for closing. Read the article, see if I got it about right. Chuckles. I'll give you some credit. I'll assume that you've actually made some progress instead of being some pimple faced twerp still in pre-Med. So you're what, 2 years left in Med school than 3 to 5 years of residency. So what, 5 years from being licensed? I just find it hilarious and highly ironic that some idiot who's nowhere near his chosen professional career actually telling somebody who's put up with somebody who's seen through the whole process what to expect. How hard do you think doctors work? You'd work pretty hard if you're say, a brain surgeon, in which there are like 7 or 8 for a town of 600,000. But you don't qualify for that position do you? You don't even qualify for the fellowship that allows you to qualify for that position yet. If you're just gonna be in primary care, especially if you're running your own clinic and not work in the hospital, that residency will be the most rigorous thing you ever have to go through, and that isn't all that rigorous. No, you're a typical twerp, whom like the average American, grossly overestimates how hard you work, and by extension, grossly underestimates how much free time you have. More importantly though, you grossly underestimates how hard people in some other countries work. Even if you do become a brain surgeon, chances are, I work harder than you. The only difference is, I manage my time a lot better. This part is funny. I spent maybe in totality, about 2 hours here over the last 2 days. The time I was here before that, couple weeks ago. The time before that, couple months ago I think. Well, it's my choice, and quite frankly, non of your god damn business. Chuckles. Sounds like you know what I do for a living better than I do. Pray, do tell what I do for a living. Not at all. I personally have little ideological beliefs. Not like morons like yourself sloganeering "well, my party is better than your party." HA HA. Ironic indeed.
Typically, Japanese companies would bring home profits from oversea operations at year end which might push up the value of the Yen. If I were to short Yen as of today, I would put in a tight stop order. There is no right or wrong in buying or selling. It's always about timing. I suspect there might be a political angle to this Yen rise story. But what do I know; I am just a dumbass. :grin:
I think there's one fundamental problem is your. Suppose for instance, the recent milk scandal. If you say China's food regulations are deplorable, a reasonable Chinese poster would say, "yeah that's pretty bad." Now, suppose an idiotic Chinese poster claim "China's food standard is the finest in the world." That's obviously a lie, and you know that poster is an idiot. However, suppose a non-Chinese poster says "the CCP is purposely poisoning kids." Is that not a lie? Coming back to the reasonable Chinese poster, if he's stating, rightfully, that the CCP is poisoning kids on purpose is false, is he being defensive or truthful? The problem here that a reasonable poster is being called defensive and a CCP drone when he is reasonable and indeed, you've no idea what his political leanings are. I think you're over-interpreting. Whatever you choose to define materialism, consumerism, capitalism or whatever, they were not nonexistent in China until recently, in "lesser" forms. The fact of the matter is, the PRC is a one party state, which as I've stated, gives some idiots the opportunity to define it as the faceless entity which crushes on. Yet there are many conflicts of interest even within the CCP itself. Because whether you want to be a dictator or just want to help the people, changes have to come from within the party. Unless you want progress to wait until they sort it out... For example, Wen Jiabao is a reformist. You only have to know his association with Zhao Ziyang to know that he's a reformist. So was Zhu Rongji before him. Wen actually has been internally calling for reforms and freedom of speech for years. And if you've read an article recently, he's hardly alone. And he meets resistance from some others who push back. It's a back and forth process. Indeed, this happens for pretty much every dynasty.
Easy on the PRC trolls. They have been brainwashed by the CCP so that whenever somebody criticizes the PRC government they take it personally. Not long ago people were forced to kill their own family members to show that they loved Mao more. Now the mainland Chinese still defend the CCP even though it demolishes people's homes and millions of people are forced to relocate without much compensation to give way to the government's "development plans". China is country with the largest proportion of its population suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Have mercy on them.
Sometimes direct expression of one's thoughts is the best euphemism. And I don't know MFW is a PRC agent
You facts are wrong and your psychoanalysis on entire Chinese is nonsense. This is nonsensical stereotyping. I probably responded more than I should.
Wow, clutchfans is really beasting. I can't believe the PRC government cared enough about us to hire people to troll D&D. Now that's commitment from the communist party that you just don't see here in the US. Maybe that's why we're losing our jobs to the Chinese. :grin:
The Chinese government does not pay me enough! They are ABUSING MY RIGHTS! And the rights of all propaganda internet posters and trolls worldwide! Down with the Commie Party!!! P.S. Anyone want to outsource their propaganda internet posting and trolling? :grin:
A wonderful article on wsj.com. You all should take a close read. I think it's a good perspective. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...2172569705034.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_editorsPicks_3
http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/...321-friend-or-foe-of-nobel-winner-you-cant-go Friend or foe of Nobel winner, you can't go! By NBC News’ Adrienne Mong and Bo Gu BEIJING – Liu Xia has been under house arrest since Oct. 8 – when her husband, Liu Xiaobo, won the Nobel Peace Prize. Her detention started after she was allowed to pay him a brief visit at the Jinzhou Jail in northeastern China. On Oct. 24, Liu Xia issued an open letter thanking the Nobel Prize Committee and supporters of Charter 08, a manifesto her husband wrote calling for political reform and democratization in China that was signed by more than 350 Chinese intellectuals and human rights activists. “Liu Xiaobo said this prize goes to all the dead spirits at Tiananmen Square, and I think the prize also goes to everyone, every fearless Chinese who protects their dignities,” wrote Liu Xia. Under strict surveillance and with no possibility of traveling to Oslo, Norway, to collect the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday on behalf of her husband, she invited 144 people to attend the ceremony in their place. Among those invited were Liu’s friends and lawyers, those who signed Charter 08, renowned artists, intellectuals, and political dissidents. The Chinese government’s response came swiftly. Liu Xia lost all means of communications with the outside world after her last tweet on Oct.18. But she’s not the only one whose communication and freedom of movement has been curtailed. Dozens of Netizens have been harassed by the police for circulating news online or celebrating Liu’s prize. People considered to be influential activists have been placed under house arrest, including the writer Yu Jie, who openly criticized Premier Wen Jiabao; Ding Zilin, leader of the Tiananmen Mothers campaign; and Chen Guangcheng, a blind activist who was just recently released from prison. And the list doesn’t end there. People even suspected of being potential Oslo attendees – whether or not they are on the list of the 144 people invited by Liu Xia – have been restricted from traveling outside of the country. Friend or foe – you can’t go! He Guanghu, a professor of religion at Renmin University, was one of the first to be stopped. As he was traveling Nov. 19 to Singapore for a seminar, he was told by Chinese customs officials that his departure could “jeopardize state security” and a travel ban had been ordered by the Beijing Public Security Bureau. He was outraged and wrote on his personal blog that he reserves the right to sue the authorities. “If the people have no security, what’s the point of ‘state security?’” It’s possible that officials suspected he could re-route his itinerary from Singapore to Norway, but it was impossible to understand why Mao Yushi, a revered 81-year-old economist, was not allowed to travel abroad. Mao is neither a friend of the Liu couple nor an invitee of Liu Xia’s. On Dec. 1, Mao was on his way to Singapore for a meeting on international development in the Himalayas. He, too, was stopped by customs officials and given the same excuse of “jeopardizing state security.” “There’s only one goal for them to prevent people from leaving the country – to make the Nobel Peace Prize award look deserted,” Mao said during a phone interview with NBC News. “I have signed Charter 08. I’m sure that’s the reason I got stopped. This is the first time I’ve ever been banned from leaving China.” Liu Xiaoyuan, a Beijing-based lawyer, also found out that he had been deemed a potentially dangerous enemy of the state when he tried to fly to Japan for an academic conference. Liu Xiaoyuan was not invited by Liu Xia and did not sign Charter 08, so he was confused why he wasn’t allowed to leave the country. “They are just being paranoid and presume everyone leaving China is going to Oslo for the prize. This is just like the Cultural Revolution,” he said. When NBC News asked what the travel ban would do to China’s international reputation, Liu gave a frank answer, “They simply don’t care now.” "They cannot stop people giving the prize to Liu Xiaobo, but they definitely think they can stop people attending the party," said Ai Weiwei, an internationally famous artist whose Sunflower Seeds exhibit is on view at the Tate Modern in London. Ai and Mo Shaoping, a top lawyer who initially represented Liu Xiaobo, are two of the more prominent luminaries prevented from traveling overseas. Both men said they had been invited to attend the Oslo ceremony but had no plans to do so. Ai said he had even informed security officials in Beijing that he would not be present at the Nobel ceremony. Regardless, last Friday, Ai was waiting to board a flight for Seoul, where he was to take part in a conference, when police officers told him his "travel may affect national security," he said. The same thing happened to Mo when he tried to board a flight for London Nov. 9 to attend a lawyers’ conference. As with Ai, he said this was the first time he’s ever been blocked from traveling out of the country. "What they've done to us has no factual or lawful support. We were going there for an academic seminar, which has nothing to do with national security," Mo said. "As a citizen, everyone has the right to leave the country ... We are going to sue them when the time is right." China throwing its own party In addition to restricting the movement of activists, the government has waged its own PR campaign. A newly formed Chinese organization announced that it will award the “Confucius Peace Prize” so China can “promote its own view on peace and human rights to the world.” In a not-so-subtle dig, the award will be given out Thursday, a day before the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded in Oslo. China has exerted diplomatic pressure on foreign embassies not to send representatives to the award ceremony. The Nobel committee said that out of the 65 invitations it sent out to embassies in Oslo – 19 countries have declined so far, including China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, Pakistan, Iraq and Iran. And Chinese citizens living in Norway have also being subjected to Beijing’s lobbying efforts. Geir Lundestad, of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, told the Hong Kong-based newspaper the Apple Daily, that he had received calls from Chinese living in Oslo who said that they were encouraged by the Chinese embassy to protest the award. A throwback to a more repressive era Beijing’s widespread and blunt reaction to the Nobel Prize raises concerns of a return to a more repressive era, raising the specter of the Tiananmen Square crackdown in June 1989. “[The Nobel ceremony] is an event that has really catalyzed the Chinese government in terms of attempting to prevent participation and expression of its own citizens at some event overseas," said Phelim Kine, an Asia researcher for Human Rights Watch. “It's unprecedented in terms of recent history, particularly since Chinese citizens' rights to travel and ability to get passports to leave the country has been one of those rights and freedoms that the Chinese government has granted in recent years." The Chinese government's heavy-handed response betrays some of its larger suspicions – more strident coverage in the state-run media and on blogs claims that the prize is part of a U.S.-led grand design to humiliate China. "This award has been interpreted as an overseas smear on the Chinese government," Kine said. "It's responding as if under attack." And yet Beijing's handling of the Nobel Peace Prize fits a pattern. "We have been chronicling an ongoing tightening since 2008. There's less space for non-governmental organizations, civil society, and things have worsened significantly since the international financial crisis," said Kine. That China emerged from the financial crisis with its economy relatively intact has fueled a sense of triumphalism, according to a diverse group of business groups, diplomats, and activists. "There's less of a sense that [Chinese officials] have to obey by the same old rules," said Kine. “They’ve got money now, and money can make many things happen. But it’s not very appropriate that it is the taxpayers’ money they are using,” said Mao, the economist. But if China wants to be a responsible stakeholder, as many of its own citizens desire, it must stop being such a bully, activists say. "China as a big country should act as a big country," said Mo, the lawyer.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2036363,00.html [rquoter] The ceremony Friday, Dec. 10, awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Liu Xiaobo in absentia drew the world's attention to the jailed Chinese dissident's courageous struggle for human rights. But history suggests the award may not alter his plight. The 1991 laureate, Aung San Suu Kyi, was also absent from her award ceremony; the charismatic figurehead of Burma's democracy movement had been placed under house arrest in Rangoon by a brutal military junta. Like Polish opposition leader Lech Walesa and Russian dissident Andrei Sakharov before her, Suu Kyi was forced to send someone in her place — her 18-year-old son Alexander attended the Oslo ceremony. The then chairman of Norway's Nobel Committee, Francis Sejersted, sounded a somber note, warning, "We must face up to the likelihood that this will not be the last occasion on which a Peace Prize laureate is unable to attend." ... Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2036363,00.html#ixzz17k1CQS5b [/rquoter]
