1. Wilt - he could do it all. 2. Kareem / Hakeem (skyhook/dream shake) Why did you compare prime Hakeem vs aging Kareem? I'm sure showtime wins one or two more with prime Kareem vs aging Kareem as well. 4. Shaq 5. Russell - he had more talent around him than any of the others so his titles don't tell the whole story The others - the mermaid, Ewing, etc don't even factor in the discussion.
Let's take a look at a different ranking of all time great centers. I think I agree to this list a little more ... From http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/sean_deveney/20020918.html 1. Wilt Chamberlain. It can be argued that he was not a team player and that he was a stat monger. That may be true. But if you are a stat monger who put up stats like 50 points and 25 rebounds per game in one season, then you're the best darned stat monger who ever lived. 2. Bill Russell. He was a better team player than Chamberlain, perhaps the greatest defensive player in NBA history. That's not bad, considering he also scored 15.1 points and dished out 4.3 assists per game. 3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He was really dangerous for a really long time, and he was brilliant in Airplane!. Abdul-Jabbar's sky hook was the most unstoppable shot in league history, and he shot 55.9 percent from the field for his career. 4. Moses Malone. He was a three-time MVP and led the league in rebounds six times in a seven-year span. Malone had a nose for keeping possessions alive with offensive rebounds, but he was a good defender, too. 5. Hakeem Olajuwon. Despite Ewing's greatness, he was selected to only one first-team All-NBA squad. The reason for that is Olajuwon, who was first-team six times in the '80s and '90s, not to mention a five-time first-team defensive choice. Of course, Olajuwon could score, too, recording nine seasons of at least 23 points per game. 6. Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq is 10 years into his career, and if his health holds up, he could shoot even higher up this list -- possibly to the top spot. Is he a bull in a china shop? Yes. Is he always pleasant to watch? No. But the guy shoots a very high percentage, is a much smarter player than he gets credit for and is an underrated passer. Simply the most dominant player of this time. 7. Willis Reed. Reed was not the scorer that Ewing was, but on the great Knicks teams of the late '60s, he was not asked to score. Reed's job was to crash the boards, keep his elbows sharp and play tough defense. He excelled at all three. 8. David Robinson. You want to know why arguments about "legacy" and "annals" are absurd? Look at Robinson. If Ewing is detracted for not winning a championship, it will be because he did not have another star on his team. Robinson, on the other hand, will be knocked for playing second fiddle to Tim Duncan later in his career. Of course, that Robinson was willing to sacrifice his own production to give his team a better chance to win a title does not matter. Ewing had great stats, but no co-star and thus no title. Robinson had great stats, but they took a dip when he got a co-star and won a title. Both will be criticized, but for different reasons. You just can't please some people.
rimrocker. Your post made alot of sense, how you compared everybody. Only if ESPN and most Hakeem haters could look at it that way.
The REAL ranking....in order Wilt (far and away the greatest) Shaq (dominates far more than Hakeem ever did) Russell (2 R's.... rings, rebounds) Alcinder (unstoppable hook) Duncan/Hakeem Walton (injuries kept him from multiple rings)
yeah duncan and hakeem are about the same. dream's defense is far and away greater than shaq or duncan's. yes shaq is more dominant in a power sense than hakeem but dream had much more than one way to beat you.
I can understand (but I don't agree) Shaq and Hakeem being on the same level, even Shaq being ranked higher, but Duncan??? He's not even a true center ...
Dream is the greatest defensive player in basketball history. Not only can we look at his huge number of blocked shots, but then check out his steals!!! He's in the top 10 in steals too, isn't he? This guy is an absolute monster defensively. On the offensive end of the court, Hakeem is probably in the top 3 of Wilt, Abdul-Jabbar and Dream himself. Shaq is a close fourth. The thing about Dream is that he was such a versatile center. He could bang down low, or take the shot out to 18 feet and knock it down with regularity. He could really do anything he wanted on the offensive end, and had the most unstoppable shot (Dream-Shake) of the late 80s and the whole 90s. All-Time, I really think it's hard to compare centers from different eras, but I'd have to argue: 1. Wilt -- from what I've heard, he was a beast offensively and defensively, and so dominating that he could probably overwhelm any other center from any era. 2. Dream -- see above. 3. Abdul-Jabbar -- a GREAT center, but Dream could contain him (well, kiindof at least). It's a close call between he and Hakeem. 4. Shaq -- unstoppable, but he has such a restricted offensive game it hurts him, IMO. Whereas other centers could hit jump-shots to draw the defense out, Shaq is only effective 8 feet and in. 5. Russell -- Can't argue with 10 rings. 6. Mo Malone -- Underrated, even on this list, he should probably be higher.
Any hear ESPN say Ewing was the best Jump Shooting Center? Did they not think of Hakeem? Come on ESPN, think. My ranking 1. Wilt (Domination on both sides,more offensive driven though) 2. Hakeem (Best all around center, can do it all) 3. Russell (Probably best team playing center, defense driven) 4. Kareem (Offense minded) 5. Shaq (Low post domination,but cant do much 8ft and out) I would put Hakeem first but the numbers Wilt put up boggle the mind. Hakeem would either defend the other so they would not score or just plain out score them. Hakeem really did not have any one on his team up until the second Championship, but even then he carried more than his share. Hakeem is like Larry Bird but more athletic, at least thats what i think.
I just want to add one more thing to Hakeem's credit. Look at his steals. He's above some of the great guards in the league with steals, and out distances every Center who's played the game with steals. That added with the foot work, blocked shots, and everything else he's accomplished, definitely puts him above Shaq, and into the top 3.
not to be a bitter, disgruntled Southerner, but. . . Bill Russell -- Boston, the good'ol East Coast, former capitol of the country Wilt Chamberlain -- Philadelphia, ECFCOC [see above]; Los Angeles, #2 media market in the country Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- ended career in LA [see above] Shaquille O'Neal -- majority of career in LA [if I could draw a picture on the innanet, I would] bottom line: if Hakeem played his entire career in any of the above cities [or NY], and it went the same way that his career did here in Houston, there would be no discussion whatsoever about who was the best center of all-time. would anyone even know that Patrick Ewing played in the NBA? for the record: I'm not saying that ESPN's top 5 are chumps. they were great. I AM saying that where they played significantly influenced their being ranked ahead of the one and only DREAM.
It is very hard to pick THE GREATEST because of the difficulty in comparing players from different eras. The top 4 should be quite apparent: Chamberlain, Russell, Jabar, and Olajuwon (the order of them is VERY debatable). Whether Shaq can beat out Malone to end the top 5 depends on how he plays out his career. I still think Shaq's career is still too short to put him in the above group. Duncan could be that fifth one if we count him as a center. I consider Duncan a better player than Shaq in terms of career-long performance rather than a spiked up peak of prime.
Why do you guys keep mentioning Duncan...I may be slightly off but I am hard pressed to remember him playing more than a handful of games at center...and that includes when D Rob was hurt
It's a stretch, but not that great of one. If they didn't have DRob, he'd be playing more center. He also played Shaq straight up very well last year, proving he's more than capable there on both sides of the ball. In fact, he's arguably better than Shaq at center, although maybe not many would argue that. He's a better shooter, has a much greater offensive arsenal, is more fluid, is a better passer, and as stated, he's an awesome defender even against Shaq.
Yeah, I guess 20pts 12rebs and 3blks is slow for a rookie. If not for Jordan averaging 28 his rookie yr, Hakeem would have been rookie of the yr. Hakeem came in the league very,very dominant from the word go.
Hakeem is the best center ever. He could score 30, grab 15 boards, get 5 assists and blocks, and pick up a few steals. No argument can be made for any other center putting up those numbers. And for whoever earlier said Shaq has dominated longer then Hakeem consider this. Hakeem played in a time with Ewing, Robinson, Doughrtey, Jabbar, and even Shaq. Hakeem schooled them all. Shaq started his dominance once Robinson, Ewing and Olajuwon went on their downfall, hell he coulden't even beat the Malone lead Jazz untill they started to fall. Now he dominates McCaholla, Mutumbo, and Divac and all of a sudden he's better then Olajuwon. Just look at the 95 finals and tell me Shaq is better then Olajuwon. BTW... I agree with you gypse. Duncan is the best center (or big man) today. He can do it all, unlike certain centers in L.A. (I'm not talking about Olowokandi, or Medemelinko). Once Shaq shows me a shot outside 12 feet and a free throw percentage around 65 then he can be considered the best. And if anyone's responce is l3-peat I say it dosen't hurt having the best 2 gaurd and a solid group of role players which includes one of the most underrated PG in the leauge in Fisher.
I put Dream at third, just ahead of Jabbar, but I'm biased. I definately feel he's underrated. I think it's a couple of things that cause this. 1) He didn't play in a big market 2) He was never big on endorsements 3) His injuries 4) All the attention the marketable players got I think head to head he could play and more than likely school any other center there was. He was a defender and unstoppable offensively. I also hate the way people brag so much of the old school guys, because I'd bet eveything I have that they couldn't do today what they did in their day. Who's to say that they could accomplish as much as Dream with his team. Maybe I'm full of it, but maybe not.
You need to look into the history more. Chamberlain makes Olajuwon's averages look puny by comparison. 22.9 rebounds in a single game would be amazing for Dream at his peak -- Chamberlain AVERAGED that over his entire career. Ditto for points. I really wish more of the games from that era were televised (and saved for ESPN Classic), as most of us are too young to have seen more than a precious few highlights.
my list of top 5 is: 1. russell-winning counts above all 2.wilt-100 points? 3. kareem-30,000+ points 4. dream-above shaq because he in the #1 leading shot blocker in NBA history! thats what you want from a center. not to mension the rebounds, points, assists. this guy is in the top 5 in STEALS in NBA history! what more could you want? (besides from a couple more rings) 5. shaq-...
