Trying to bring this back to some substance. Why do you think giving the Nobel to a man who convinced many of the students to peacefully leave Tiananmen and was lauded by the CCP for meritorious service then is a joke?
Hehe, the ridiculousness in your argument gets better by the minute, but I'll play along anyway. If liking vegetable were a crime, then Wen Jiabao would be condemned, happy now? Now selling opium in China and subverting the government were also crimes, why should China make exception to those who committed, be it the British in 19th century or the "rights activists" of the new age?
Its only ridiculous because the comparison you brought up is. That is the point you can compare things on a narrow basis which ignores the whole range of why those situations are different. Not saying they should be again it is a still a ridiculous comparison. Let me give you another example to show how foolish this comparison is. Pick pocketing is a crime. Now if someone in England says the PRC should take it easy on a pick pocket is that the same as the Opium War? In both cases the British are telling the PRC how they should enforce their laws and under the reasoning you present they are subverting the PRC's laws. Now back to the substance. I would like to hear why you think it is a joke to give the Nobel to a man who actually worked for a peaceful resolution to Tiananmen and was even lauded by the PRC for it.
Judoka, you argument still holds no water. With martial law declared, it didn't matter whether Liu tried to negotiate a "peaceful" exit of demonstrators. They had to go, otherwise they would have their asses handed to them. Now for the sake of argument let's assume Liu was indeed trying to do some good to minimize the potential casualties in TAM. But Liu was not jailed this time for his role in TAM. That was over, and you need to get over it as well. It's like saying if Hitler had been captured and prosecuted, it would not have been for war crimes, but for his ardent support of animal rights. BTW, subversion is not a petty crime such as pocket picking.
the fact that China is censoring social networking comments, and websites from even talking about it shows that he definitely had something to be an activist against in China.
Who giveth a ratass to who wins Noble fuucking peace prize these days? Didn't Barrack freaking Hussein Obama win it last time? Obama should have given up the prize money to the military in Iraq, then it'll make more sense.
Some of the comments on chinese forums are just plain crazy (which I can't seperate from pure sarcasm). Anyways, good for him, at least gets his name out there so people outside of PRC actually know who he is.
I do wonder if Clutchfans is one of the prominent vehicles for this news in PRC now. That's kind of a funny thought. I can imagine how mad I would be if Glenn Beck or Michael Moore were given a major international award for making the world a better place. Or some anarchist PETA protestor. I would be like "give me a break." I know it's different and the dude here is in prison. But I totally sympathize with the "butt out" sentiment, even from PRC folks who want to see things gradually change.
The Great Firewall can't really censor every bit of information out in this internet age. The peace prize certainly won't hit headlines on Sina or any news site, but discussions have been going on everywhere in forums, in blogs, and in the Chinese copycat versions of Facebook and Twitter. I think he will be released from prison and exiled out of the country, like a couple of former dissidents. It would be a good thing for him, and for the CCP as well since they don't have to deal with his crap anymore.
While I will admit that what Liu did in China probably has a very attenuate tie with the goal of the peace prize - upholding peace and reduce international conflicts, but I still applaud for the prize committee's recognition of Liu's work in China. This is what the Prize committee said http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/world/09nobel.html?hp Forget it's a committee appointed by the Norwegian Parliament and Western imperialism blah for a second. Is there anything wrong with its consideration giving the Prize to a Chinese citizen that strove to establish UNIVERSAL human rights despite server punishment? Wen Jiabao himself recognized the existence of such universal rights (He publicly said “science, democracy, rule of law, freedom and human rights are not unique to capitalism, but are values commonly pursued by mankind over a long period of history.” http://www.economist.com/node/17150224) Nevertheless, the Chinese government responded The crime is of course Liu's alleged subversion of the country through his Charter 08 movement. Subversion? Really? If a country can be subverted by peaceful human rights movement on the internet supported by 300 intelligent Chinese, the country is in a serious defunct. For the prize and more important recognition of Liu's efforts in China, I
Not really. Last year's winner at least had a chance to make his award legit. China has had tons and tons of dissidents hailed by westerners for decades now. How much had it mattered? Don't we still accuse the same things over and over about China? I swear growing up all I heard about China was their human rights issues. And it's still about that years later. These people really made a lot of difference I see... This is like giving me a Nobel in physics/peace/everything because I can postulate faster-than-light travel and terraforming foreign planets that allows us to establish galaxy federation that will solve world hunger and growing population.
Subversion of the country through his chart08 on the internet, a manifesto calling for universal rights in China. The manifesto was signed by 300 some prominent Chinese intellectuals both abroad and domestic. Only Liu was singled out and got a 11 year sentence last year.
It's great to see Liu gets the recognition and respect. He's a great thinker, scholar, and a great person above all. In this profit/money oriented world, China or elsewhere, it's not easy to stand firm with what he believes in, and he sacrificed himself for it. Some of his words were very inspiring, "I have no enemy", or "I hope I am the last one in China, who's put in prison because of speech". Although the news was blocked by major PRC news sources, Internet is just too powerful, and people are too connected with the outside world. Liu is getting lots of props and supports in Mainland China as well. Of course, there are also people against him, in China or overseas. One of the main reasons some of them dislike this Prize was simply because they believe it was done to upset Chinese government. People should live and think for themselves, stop living for others - know what you want, and know what is right. It doesn't matter whether your perceived friends or enemies are for or against it. What's right is right, no matter what other motives might be behind the action.
I understand its a "crime" in the sense that it breaks a stupid law. What I mean is its not something he should be punished for.
I dont think the chinese government cares much about a nobody. Most of the Chinese dont know who Liu is and even for the ones who know they dont even care
