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America losing brainpower advantage

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by madmonkey37, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    It couldn't have anything to do with the rest of the world catching up, could it?
     
  2. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Member

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    The problem is that because of the increased focused on valued-added data and performance based pay, teachers are more than ever forced to teach to a test, rather than devote time to truly authentic learning. We're teaching kids to do well on a multiple choice test, but not to be true inquirers.

    I'm not saying standardized testing doesn't have a place. It just shouldn't be the sole focus of student performance.

    As has also been mentioned, we live in a materialistic society where success is gauged on wealth and fame. Kind of hard to get a kid excited to make the next new scientific discovery when they're trying to get their 15 minutes on the newest reality show, or trying to find the easiest, quickest way to get rich.
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    My kids are far more focused on doing well in school than I ever was. I think far too many generalizations are being tossed around about this subject.
     
  4. Wakko67

    Wakko67 Member

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    Is it generalizing when the studies show it? You're kids may be, but that doesn't mean most work hard. We have too many distractions these days and that's a huge issue. Like others have pointed out as well, kids learn early on that they can hope to get ahead with a solid education. Just look at a lot of the politicians.
     
  5. orbb

    orbb Member

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    You can't import an educated workforce wholesale. Unless of course you subscribe to the idea of "USA Inc".
     
  6. Steve_Francis_rules

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    "Catching up" implies that we were well ahead and now the gap is closing, like what happened with USA basketball in international competition.

    The rest of the world isn't catching up to the US, they're leaving us in the dust. We are far behind most other developed countries.
     
  7. meh

    meh Member

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    Umm, we already do, and have done it for a long time now. Plus, I'm not just talking about the workforce, but also academics. If you look at the college professors all over the country, you'd see some of the smartest non-Americans teaching us here.

    This happens because the US is like the NBA of learning. We are still the best, pay the best, offer the best venue, and therefore attract the very best here. And like the NBA, the international competition is getting stiffer. But in order to prosper as a country, we have to maintain our superiority. Regardless of how one may feel about illegal immigrants sneaking through our borders, we can all agree that as a country based on immigration, we should let in the really smart ones.
     
  8. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Probably an excuse to dilute US graduate schools with foreigners. Foreigners will drive down the cost of labor since they will work for less than their American born counterparts.
     
  9. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Actually, I think the general trend is the point here.
     
  10. Steve_Francis_rules

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    This is a joke, right? American grad schools do not pay foreign students less than they pay American students.
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I agree with you that immigration is helping us greatly by bringing in the best and brightest of the rest of the World but we still need to develop our own talent. As the rest of the World develops the impetus to come, and stay here, is lessened and in the long run is something we can count on to keep our global competitiveness.

    Also regarding the standardized testing I have a mixed opinion about it but will point out that many of the countries outperforming us in education place more importance on standardized testing than we do.
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I'm not sure all of those are necessarily true anymore or likely to remain true.
     
  13. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    You realize these people leave grad school and then get jobs, right?
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Grad students who are research and teaching assistants are paid.
     
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    So what is the "trend?" Under the last President, he/"we" went "all in" on standardized testing. One of the results? Teachers being forced to "teach to the tests." Smart children, the ones we all hope will grow up to become scientists, engineers, the people on the cutting edge, those children sleepwalk through these tests. I would ask my kids about them and they would laugh. Seriously, they'd laugh at how easy they were and how boring "studying" for them is. One just started high school and the other is an engineering major at a top notch school, a junior after completing one year, because he had well over 30 hours of college credit before he ever graduated from high school.

    Both my kids went/are going to magnet schools. Public schools in Austin designed to offer lower income/minority students the chance to have a terrific education, with smaller classes, far better than average teachers (teachers "fight" to get hired at the magnet schools, because they can teach kids that want to learn), and more money for labs, etc.. They also accept exceptional students from wealthier backgrounds (relatively speaking), who can pass rigorous testing (non-standardized) to get into limited slots. The magnet schools have kids literally from all over Austin (it is over an hour bus ride from where we live, each way... my kids don't care) and are very, very diverse. When my son went to them, most of his friends belonged to various minority groups, including many whose parents came from India, Egypt, Central and South America, as well as minorities "native" to Austin, if that is a proper description.

    I think a good question might be, why aren't all our public schools like the magnet schools that did and are doing such a great job with my own children? Why? Because there is a dearth of leadership, from the top down, but particularly at the top and primarily at the state level. That "leadership," including the governor and the top people in the Legislature, simply don't want to spend the money. They cry and moan about business "suffering from high taxes," and keep cutting state income, when the best thing that could happen to business in this state, and nationwide, is a highly educated stream of young people coming from our public education system. This "leadership" refuse to provide the funds to produce the educaton our children should have. They issue "mandates," as if from Mount Olympus, and then refuse to provide the money to fund those mandates. Yeah, those unfunded mandates some of you may have heard about. Their excuse? "The financial crisis!" An excuse that is bull ****. When the state was flush with money, they didn't provide money to fund the mandates, or adequate funding for public education in general.

    Instead, they cut taxes. Who are the fools here?
     
  16. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    You're preaching to the choir, Deckard. I was simply pointing out that the trend is was it is.
     
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    You're the educated part of the choir, rhad. The section with active intelligence. Your post just gave me an excuse for posting my thoughts about it. There is so much we could do to improve our educational system, if we only had the leadership to do it, and the courage to push through the tax increases and/or the reallocation of funds to accomplish great things. It would take time, but a far better educated population would produce more tax revenue, greater national wealth, and insure we remain one of the leading countries in the world in terms of education.
     
  18. meh

    meh Member

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    Perhaps I'm off, but I hold the belief that true talented people, the ones that drive a country's technology frontier, will arise regardless of primary education. It's really the secondary education that matters. And in this regards, the US has not faltered. The best colleges, research facilities, and professors still reside here.

    I feel our crappy primary school system hurts our middle class, the low-to-mid level positions in companies where an average American may handle the duties if our primary schools were better. But in this case, the solution for businesses seem to be outsourcing to other countries.
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It's still important given that sophistication in labor is increasing for middle paying jobs.
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    As Invisible Fan noted given the increasing complexity of jobs we need better primary education even for those who never go to college. At the same time a lot of our college systems are in trouble due to rapidly rising tuitions and budget cut backs. I went to the best public university in the country, UC Berkeley, and in the last 10 years it is rapidly becoming unaffordable to many while budget cutbacks are reducing the quality of education there.
     

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