Is anyone up for arguing the Rockets titles vs MJ in facebook?

Ive seen someone with a quote from Jordan saying he was glad he didnt have to face the Rockets in the postseason or something to that effect. I remember reading it in someone signature or in a thread. I believe it was after a regular season game where the Rockets had beat the bulls. Does any know what I'm talking about?

 

all i know is that most fans forget that jordan's team got beat by the magic before we swept the magic. instead they say jordan was retired for 2 years.

 

It's a stupid argument made even moreso by the fact that Jordan played the second year the Rockets won the Finals, and his team didn't even make the Finals.

 

There is no argument as the rockets were clearly better than the Bulls during this era.So why bother?Y

 

To be fair, we never made it to the Finals whenever the Bulls made it there either.

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=142418

 

So by thay logic. The lakers title last year is tainted cause yao didn't play. It's a bunch of crap.

 

I had the same argument some time ago with a friend of mine, see below, if it helps you at all argue your point......


[4:40:29 AM] AT: Here's a quote from a message board that I thought you'd like
[4:40:35 AM] AT: "time to wake up pal , the only reason, and I mean ONLY reason the Rockets won jack ( 2 titles ) in the 90's is because Jordan retired for 2 years .. face it fool, if Jordan stays the Rockets win NOTHING !!!!!!!! and the Bulls win 8 straight !! I love it when the Rockets fans talk sht, hahahahahahahaha ... they know better but are afraid to say , "thank you for retiring Mr. Jordan and giving us 2 NBA Championships" Pippen belongs in the HOF .. NO DOUBT !!"
[8:15:25 AM] LT: and that's supposed to change my mind coming from some jordan nut hugging fan online? nice...
[8:19:01 AM] AT: Nope
[8:19:05 AM] AT: I just knew it would piss you off
[8:19:09 AM] AT: It is true though
[8:19:15 AM] AT: (y)
[8:20:01 AM] LT: if the rockets lost the finals in 93, then won in 94 and 95 when jordan retired, than lost in the finals in 96..i could buy that
[8:20:03 AM] LT: but nope
[8:20:23 AM] LT: rockets didn't have a team good enough to even get there in 93 or 96
[8:20:36 AM] LT: not like jordan was what stood in their way
[8:21:01 AM] AT: They still wouldn't have beaten a Jordan led Bulls team in the Finals
[8:22:16 AM] LT: and you guys act like jordan didn't play at all in 95
[8:22:58 AM] AT: That wasn't the real Jordan
[8:23:15 AM] AT: You can't expect him to be playing at the same level when he hadn't played in almost two years
[8:23:25 AM] AT: And he came right off the baseball field
[8:23:33 AM] LT: well he averaged like 26 ppg in the playoffs, sounds like the real jordan to me
[8:23:46 AM] LT: not our fault they coudn't beat the magics
[8:24:04 AM] LT: the same magic team that the rockets anihilated 4-0 in the finals
[8:24:54 AM] LT: jordan scores like 40, 26, 28, etcll..something like that per game in that series and couldn't get past the magic losing in 6...and the rockets without homecourt sweep them 4-0
[8:25:20 AM] AT: PPG doesn't matter
[8:25:36 AM] AT: Like when he got the ball stolen from him by Nick Anderson at the end of one of the games
[8:25:44 AM] AT: Never happened before like that
[8:25:50 AM] AT: Didn't happen when he had a full off-season
[8:27:07 AM] LT: sure he is rusty but not like he went 2/19 and turned the ball over every time he got the ball, he didn't forget how to play baskebtal.. but you can't discount the facts man, they lost, didn't even make it to the finals and lost to a team the rockets competley destroyed in the finals
[8:27:58 AM] LT: i'm just saying, when idiots like that talk, they make it like jordan didn't even play at all and all the years before and after jordan is what stood in the rockets way
[8:28:34 AM] AT: Jordan's last six full years, they won it all
[8:28:37 AM] AT: 'Nuff said
[8:28:48 AM] AT: Had he played those two full seasons, they'd have won it all then too
[8:29:00 AM] LT: yup and the rockets brought on old ass retiring charles barkley
[8:29:05 AM] LT: and weren't the same team anymore
[8:30:07 AM] AT: What does that have to do with it?
[8:30:19 AM] AT: Barkley was with the Suns in the mid 90's
[8:30:37 AM] LT: he was a rocket in 97
[8:30:41 AM] LT: one of the years the bulls won
[8:30:50 AM] LT: rockets changed the make up of the team
[8:31:12 AM] AT: But not when the Rockets won
[8:32:04 AM] LT: i know that's my point, the years the bulls won, the rocket didn't have the same team as when they won the finals
[8:32:25 AM]LT: no horry, no cassell, they chose to have a retiring hall of famer over key role players
[8:32:37 AM] LT: and the rockets team when the bulls won were no longer the same team
[8:33:01 AM] LT: so u can't say oh, as soon as jordan took over, that was it for the rockets, that same team couldn't get passed the bulls
[8:33:51 AM] AT: Jordan & Pippen didn't lose in the Finals and made it there their last 6 years together
[8:33:53 AM] AT: That's all ya need to know
[8:35:10 AM] LT: ok, well if yao was healthy last year, we would have been a 50+ win team and probably played the lakers in the WCF, so might as well put an * next to the suns since that should have been the rockets
[8:35:28 AM] LT: what ifs..there is no what ifs man, there is just reality
[8:35:42 AM] LT: what if jordan played
[8:35:51 AM] LT: bullcrap, he didn't and there is no way to prove anything
[8:36:31 AM] LT: if you want to talk about jordan winning 94/95 if he played, let me go on all day about how great the rockets would be if they weren't hit with injuries every year

 

http://clutchfans.net/news/1549/rudy_t_reflects_on_rockets/

 

umm What?!? I don't even understand what you are going for. I'm not saying the Rockets titles were tainted or anything like that. People always want to bring up how we made it to the Finals those years and the Bulls did not as some valid argument in this debate. Well, wouldn't the right thing to do is to also take account of the when the Bulls made the Finals and the Rockets did not? Is that not the fair way to look at it?

 

I don't have facebook but would love to get in on that. They keep saying that Hakeem was the only matchup that favored us, um hello we had Thorpe! He always got the better end of Horace Grant. OT>>>Grant but since Grant had helped win 3 in a row Bulls fans tend to overrate him, like saying he was better than Thorpe. Good Lord look at the stats and film!
I think Smith and Cassell at least equal Paxson and Armstrong but the Bulls fans think that the experience of Paxson and Armstrong having won 3 would give them the edge. Well I think the combo of Maxwell and Elie would have made Jordan crazy. He never had two guys of that caliber that would have been in his grill the entire time forcing him to drive and make him run into either Thorpe or Hakeem! Thats how it would have went and Paxson, Kerr or whatever white cat they could have found wouldn't have bailed him out cause Kenny or Sam would never have to leave him on help defense, or Horry on Pippen! They could hit wide open trey's but I doubt many would go in with face up D, might not even be able to get them the ball to try.
Thats about what the picture would have looked like and you still see DumbA** Jordan nut riding fans that can't get over the fact he's not God. They are so annoying and actually know nothing about the sport of basketball. Proof cause he was there in '95, put up the best playoff stats in his career and lost in 6 to the team the Rockets swept! I just love it when they try and say but he didn't have a full season. Hey stupid, at 32, not having a full season for the supposed best ever athlete of the 1900's, should have been an advantage for him!!! But Jordan nut riders will never actually see the facts to this arguement b/c their too busy looking at his tongue and crotch while he's dunking on somone not named Hakeem!
I bring up the point all the time that we went 5-1 against them in the 3 year span they won 3 in a row, 4 of those games having Buck Johnson starting at small forward against Pippen before we got Horry. They will reply with but that wasn't playoff Jordan. Its the most ridiculous arguement/statement you can make. Not giving any credit to Hakeem and the fact we were the worst matchup for them of any team in the NBA plus playoff Hakeem those 2 years was one of the most dominate players in the history of the game, look at the stats fools! Watch your guarantee's Jordan nut riders(notice I don't refer to them as fans, fans are usually knowledgable) Don't guarantee things even Jordan himself wouldn't! He's admitted more than once he was glad Houston didn't make it to the finals the years he did. Now thats reality Jordan Nut Riders!

Please copy and paste that to the facebook agruement if you like :grin:

 

I don't argue with people. I let the facts do the talking. I never respond to people who want to argue with me. Seems to work pretty well.

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=184945

So, I didn't know whether to post this in the GARM forum, but it drives me crazy when I hear people say that our two championships deserve asterisks due to Michael Jordan not playing. Yes, he was "retired" during the 1993-1994 season, but he PLAYED during the 1994-1995 season. Yesterday on 610 for example, Rich Lord mentioned that Jordan didn't play the two seasons that we won our championships.

Total horse manure. MJ did play in the 1994-95 season, though it wasn't for the whole year...only 17 regular season games. When I mention that, people then try to counter with, "Well, he wasn't the same MJ because he only played a portion of the year", which couldn't be further from the truth (about him being not being vintage MJ). Proof? No problem. Let's look at MJ's stats in the 1995 playoffs in comparison to the 3 following championship seasons.

It should also be noted that the Bulls were eliminated by the Orlando Magic, a team that we SWEPT.

MJ's 1995 playoff stats (you know, when he wasn't "vintage MJ")

FG %: .484
3P %: .367
PPG: 31.5
RPG: 6.5
APG: 4.5

Now, his playoff averages during the 3 following championship seasons:

FG %: .459
3P %: .300
PPG: 31.4
RPG: 6.0
APG: 4.1

As you can see, MJ was superior in the 95 playoffs than he was, on average, in the 3 following champioship years, which should put the debate to rest. MJ was, in fact, MJ but the Magic were the better TEAM and we SWEPT the Magic. Therefore, the BS and ill-informed "MJ didn't play/MJ wasn't the same player" couldn't be further from the truth.

Critics and MJ homers might say, "But Blake, you used AVERAGES from the 3 other titles, you didn't compare year to year". No problem.

Using the 4 playoff seasons (1995-1998), Jordan averaged:

PPG:
1995-31.5
1996- 30.7
1997- 31.1
1998- 32.4

Second highest scoring average in 1995 playoffs

RPG:
1995- 6.5
1996- 4.9
1997- 7.9
1998- 5.1

Second highest rebounding average in 1995 playoffs

APG:
1995-4.5
1996- 4.1
1997- 4.8
1998- 3.5

Second highest assist average in 1995 playoffs

FG%:
1995- .484
1996- .459
1997- .456
1998- .462

Highest FG% in 1995 playoffs

3 point %:
1995- .367
1996- .403
1997- .194
1998- .302

Second highest 3pt % in 1995 playoffs

In conclusion, when anyone says to you that the 1995 NBA championship should have an * next to it due to MJ not playing or not being "vintage MJ", tell them about those stats and tell them to have a coke and a smile.

The point of this? Well, I'm tired of hearing people say that crap, even local Houston sports radio hosts. The fact of the matter is that basketball is a team sport and the Bulls did not have Rodman yet and were not the powerhouse that they became again when they signed him. Jordan WAS Jordan in the 1995 playoffs, but the Bulls just were not a good enough team.

The Rockets were...and we won it all.

 

Our '94 team might not have beaten the Bulls, but our '95 team would have, Pre Rodman, the Bulls suffered immensely against C-SG threats from being manhandled especially on the boards, Shaq and Penny, Dream and Glide. (although that being said, that 95 playoffs was probably the last time Clyde was still the Glide, inparticular the second highest playoff fg% of his career)

 

Tell him, if they want to play "What If games"

What if, the Dream decided to average a triple-double during the whole Series against the Bulls. MJ would have been forced to play baseball.

 

I like how people like to leave out the fact that a returning Jordan wasn't the addition that put the Bulls back on top, but it was actually Dennis Rodman.

 

What if Hakeem blocked Jordan's dunk attempt so badly in the finals that Jordan actually tore his should out of his socket and was never the same player and the Bulls went on to never win another title and Jordan retired just a few years later only to eventually open up a restaurant with his uncle but eventually had to..

Gotta love what-ifs.

Houston Rockets: 1993-1994 and 1994-1995 NBA Champions