American pastor Terry Jones vows to hold national Koran burning event

See, this is the funny part about this. Muslim extremists murder people around the world every day "in the name of Islam", so much that it is practically impossible to keep track. (The obviously very crass website http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ does try to, but I do not agree with a lot of the content on that website.) Some random attention-whoring idiot in Florida announces he wants to burn some Quran books and he gets what he wants - the attention. Muslim activists are outraged and use this to say "See? Christians have crazies, too!" and "liberals" in the US see it (as so often) as proof that conservatives/Christians are worse people than they consider themselves.

While I think he is an idiot, and having watched some clips in which he speaks only confirm this, there are plenty far worse atrocities than this guy's pre-announced offensive act.

The above is a somewhat long-winded prelude to the answer to your question: Islamist fanatics burn American flags, puppets of American presidents, bibles, etc. etc. all over the world all the time and everyone just shrugs, because why make a fuss over that when they also decapitate people, delude people into blowing themselves up, blow up planes and metro trains, etc. etc.? Nobody can ignore that. The whole symbolical "burning stuff" routine done by Islamists gets ignored simply because there are fare more outrageous things to worry about.

Now, if some lunatic priest's announcement to burn a few Qurans causes such a fuss, then I guess that means that there are no worse atrocities toward Muslims by Christians right now that people can direct their outrage toward.

So, yes, they should speak out against the idiots at their fringes. Just like people all over the world speak out against this idiot. But comparing what is there to be spoken out against right now seems to show that what is considered fringe in one case would not even cause more than a shrug in the other case. If it does not cause more than a shrug if it is an Islamist who does it, then why give this guy so much attention?

 

I did read it, and it was a good and encouraging read. But as discussed above, I believe they had quite a lot more to speak out against than just some book burning.

 

No, this is wrong. I defined the difference (and just to be sure, that by no means shall be understood as me relativizing or in any way downplaying the fact that Hitler was probably the worst person in history) by saying:

One of them was motivated by his crazy ideas about racial superiority, power hunger and anti-semitism (and what other crazy motivations this idiot might have had) and merely used christianity as a pretext when it suited him to further his above "goals". The predominant motivation is not religious.

The others actually seem to really believe that they are being good Muslims by killing innocent people...they really believe (obviously falsely) that they are acting "in the name of Islam". Here, the predominant motivation (from THEIR perspective) is actually religious. That they completely misunderstand the peaceful message of the religion as understood by the majority of its followers is another matter.

How is this difference so hard to understand?

And how did we even get to this point in the discussion? Ah yes, someone mentioned Hitler being a devout Christian. I quoted a random quote by the idiot which indicates that he was not really a devout Christian (not even in his own mind). And MadMax actually supplied further proof for that.

 

In a way, yes. I have no simple explanation for it. There is also no excuse for it. But what does this have to do with a crazy guy in the US who wants to burn a quran to get some attention?

 

I guess that works if you want to make the argument that American Muslims are so prone to violence that burning a book is the equivalent of yelling fire in a building.

 

Now that I am back at a computer and not posting from my mobile phone, let me deal with rhadamanthus. Here's an interesting sequence of posts.

My post he was responding to was:

So how exactly did I self-own myself by quoting something from Wikipedia that shows that he actually held some contempt for Christianity (there are plenty more indicators for that)? Someone kept saying that he had "strong Christian beliefs". As MadMax explained in better words than I did from a phone without a keyboard, and as the quote I posted also shows (and I am aware that there are contradictory quotes), even in his own mind (which is the difference to the deluded Islamists) he can probably not be regarded as a devout Christian.

Now let's see your next few posts, rhadamanthus.

Nice. Because I pointed out that Hitler was probably not even in his own mind a devout Christian, you feel the need to throw out an unprovoked insult. Interesting.

Again, interesting. Pointing out (and backing up with a quote from Wikipedia) that Hitler was not a devout Christian in his own mind is "arrogant and insulting"?

"Arrogant and insulting" tone indeed, rhadamanthus.

 

The problem I have is I cannot discern a Muslim who is so offended by the burning of their book that they will commit violence to revenge the act...and those that can see how ludicrous the idea of committing violence because a few non-believers burned their book. The burners didn't believe in it anyway...so why does it matter so much if non-believers burn the book? The value of the book is in the eye of the beholder. When I see a cleric in Afghanistan say they think any Americans will be killed on sight in Muslim countries if the burning occurs, then...to me...he is saying Muslims who were just civilians before turned to violence to defend the book as is called for.

So, how the hell do we know which ones will be prone to violence as revenge and which ones won't? We can't very well say all American Muslims are going to sit idly by while this happens...can we? I think it's safe to say that Muslims overseas are more prone to violence than American Muslims...but this act is offensive to all Muslims so who knows what each one is willing to do individually?

 

If anyone wants to kill someone just because some random idiot burns a book, they are way more idiotic than the idiot who wants to burn the book.

 

A very nice essay, ATW. Unfortunately, the post I found arrogant and insulting was this one:

 

And you very well deserved it, as you started it with the baseless accusation:

So don't whine about "arrogant and insulting" when you start something without backing it up. You got what you deserved.

 

Will somebody PLEASE tell me when any Muslims anywhere in the world burned Bible's in a similar fashion, as DaDa and ATW have so boldly claimed?

 

I love the links you provide, just shows what kind of websites you use to get your info, it seems this specific site blames "Islamists" for every crime that occurs in Muslim countries (they don't even post any links showing sources for their info). No wonder you are scared shytless of Muslims, you should try to visit websites that are more neutral.

 

He has a right to burn the books.

 

Having an Right
and
Doing RIGHT

are two separate things

Rocket River

 

I don't see what the big fuss is, seriously. If everyone just ignored the guy, he probably wouldn't go through with it. Plus, like I said earlier, it's his right to whatver he wants with the Koran. If somebody burned a cross or a bible, it wouldn't bother me. It's not like I live my life to please eveyone, but that's just me.

 

No Bible burnings but plenty of executions and murders. Feel better?

 

No one is talking about executions and murders. That happens everywhere and by everyone, you know it. We are talking about religious scriptures. Not even flags. If people have witnessed what happened after the Danish guy drew pictures of Muhammed PBUH with a bomb on his turban, imagine what kind of reaction this is gonna cause. I personally don't wish for any violence, but we all know it's going to happen.

I hope that a lot of people from ALL the faiths show up to Gainseville and protest the event right across from where it's being held. This would be the best way to show that there are only 50 idiots (plus ATW and basso) who support this.

 

Of course it happens everywhere and by everyone, just last week there were three Muslims in my neighborhood abducted and executed for carrying the Koran. It's crazy!!

 

Why do people assume that extremists and the majority of those that are Islamic/Muslim share the same ideals?

If there were a Christian terrorist group I bet nobody would be making rash assumptions about Christianity.