StarCraft 2, the GOAT game, must get its own thread

Here's the one I found most helpful:

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The next one is good, too:

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i'm too lazy to get into the argument of how important APM is, but I guarantee I will beat any player with apm less than 80. I'm not a very good player on SC2 yet (diamond in 1v1 and 2v2, but only have played about 150 total games), but I know for a fact that anyone with apm less than that will not be able to beat me. SC2, just like SC1, is a game that you can only become an "expert" by playing a lot and being good with all 3 races so you know exactly how a unit is produced/moves/is countered.

APM is definitely repetitive, but it keeps you "focused". it's hard to understand it until you've actually become good at the game. it also goes beyond clicks. keyboard use/precision is also a factor. if i decide to play at 60 apm, i will be very ineffective in my game play. i used to look at my friend (that was very active in his play) and shake my head, saying "that's unnecessary clicking" but now i know it's apart of the game.

I don't think that it's a coincidence all the pro-gamers in sc1 have apm over 300. and these current pro gamers on youtube aren't exactly the real sc2 pro gamers. the real guys (belonging to korean teams) aren't releasing their replays to the public yet because they have strategies they don't want the public and potential competitors to be preparing for.

SC2, from what I can tell, also measures the APM a little different than SC1/Bwchart. I think sc2 apm will be much lower than sc1 apm because it seems that sc2 has a found a way to somewhat filter spam clicks out of the actual apm.

anyway, when it's all said and done, the pro gamers will still be around 300 APM. they also play at a high mouse sensitivity. while i'm not a pro-gamer, i can guarantee you that there is a correlation between being active and being good.

 

interesting...how do you bring up the APM and units being built boxes in the replays? i've seen a lot of videos/commentaries where they do.

 

I haven't watched a replay for a while, but I think you have to press "M". There are tabs on the left. You can choose what you want to view: production, army, actions per minute, resources...some other stuff.

I think 40-70 is reasonable APM for people who aren't accustomed to the StarCraft universe. I have a friend whose APM is 65ish and he does decent enough to land into platinum.

 

i watched the vids people posted, for the most part i knew a lot of that stuff, i am catching myself not building things and having dead periods. but i just tried some of that stuff against the computer and still getting crushed. think i'm about done with this game. i mean if i cant take the computer out, no way i'll beat anyone online.

 

A higher APM basically means you can multi-task. While most gamers go through one thing at a time. Train 2 marines. Wait... train 2 tanks... etc. etc. Pro gamers can both macro, micro, train units, and scout the map all the same time...

The level of multi-tasking needed in RTS games is crazy... I can keep up with 1 group of units attacking and my base... but I can't manuever several different attack waves and flank and etc. etc. Too much.

 

i think you just need time. you can read guides, get advice, etc. but eventually it just comes down to practice.

 

Anyone have a guess pass they aren't using and willing to give to me? :grin: I caved in, but first I want to see if my laptop can handle it without issue and if my internet can handle it without lag.

 

The level of multitasking needed to play at very high levels of SC2 almost take all enjoyment out of the games.

If you watch the pro level games that are narrated by Husky or some of the others, almost all the elite players play very similar methods and styles, the games almost always look very similar, and its usually the guy that can multitask at the highest level that wins.

Its almost more fun to play with a bunch of amateurs in a slower game. People do all kinds of crazy stuff, the game isn't basically pre written by set rules of engagement, and its just more relaxed and fun.

I seriously don't see how elite players maintain enjoyment of SC or SC2.

 

they play to win

 

God, I'm having a terrible 0-3 night. I try to expand quick and build up but then I just get wasted by some lame 1-base play (mass marine with banshees, fast Mutas, whatever...).

Bad night.

 

im still trying to figure out how rushing is fun for people. i've seen guides how to "Stop rushing" but i seriously dont know how its done. numerous times people are sending zerglings as i get a barracks down. and no, i'm not that slow. i get a barracks at about 11 supply. its insane and impossible when zerg players just build a spawning pool right away and morph in zerglings.

like someone mentioned above, wouldnt the game be more fun if you could build up stuff get multiple units rather than this stick to a build order and pump out these units, attack and get the game done in 10 minutes.

 

anyone wanna setup a time all of us this weekend can play? we can do 1v1, 2v2 or whatever. figure start playing with some of you guys, can look at the replay, try to learn some things, you guys could look at it, give me feedback.

 

Yeah, I refuse to rush and do other cheese (proxy 2-gate, cannon rush, zergling rush, etc.). It's just not fun, I agree.

But a 6-pool is going to be the fastest way they'll get Zerglings in a base. A Spawning Pool costs 200 minerals and takes a while to build, so it's not immediate. You should definitely have a Barracks up with a few Marines and a wall for them to be behind by the time they get to you.

Proper scouting will alert you to the necessity, too.

 

I'm sorry but no, anything above 100 APM is unnecessary clicking, I hover around 80-100 APM (nothing close to the pros of course) most games, and I don't spam click like most losers in the beginning. Macro skill and knowing what your opponent is doing at all times > APM.

Like someone said Idra and WhiteRa two of the best players hover around 120-150 avg apm per game and thats with spamming in the beginning of the game. APM =/= Skill.

 

if thats the case than i must be really doing something wrong. i've lost a handful of games simply because as im getting my barracks down, 3-4 zerglings are running into my base.

 

this game will be patched many times. i assume they might slow that down at least a little, and will probably make the zerg a bit stronger late game. im not anywhere close to good enough at the game, but from what i read zerg is a little weak as the game goes on.

 

I almost always 9 pool against protoss and almost never 9 pool against terrans (usually fast expand for terrans). I 9 pool against toss not because I think it'll finish him but that currently 4 gate is insane to deal with as a zerg.

9 pool does two things, forces him to react to an early regression, allows me to see how aggressive he's going to be, is he really 4 gating or is he going to go fast void ray cheese etc. my early aggression usually works as scouting for me too and then i plan around that and put him a little on the defensive. Rushing against toss works if I got my micro game on good enough, if not it's going to be about how well I think I understand his strat and build counters for it asap.

For terrans, rushing should never work imo, if they 6 pooled kill the lings with your scv's and you are golden the rest of the game, seriously, you should have 14 scvs, crowd the lings and it's game for them because they are so behind economy wise. If they 9 pool, you should have the wall blocked off (every game I 9 pooled against Terran, their defense is already up). Even if you don't, kill the lings with scvs but you should have your choke block up.

Zerg on zerg usually comes down to a scouting match, I usually look to build a spawning pull around 10-ish. and scout with my drone. It's important to see if they're going fastlings -> roaches or teching, and then counter appropriately. I build pool at 10 because it allows me to counter they lings rushes if they're going that but also leave me the option of keeping them from fast expand. Once again, I'm platinum on a 5 game losing streak so I'm not an expert.

 

Your usually not going to stop the first pack, you want to complete you wall before a second pack can get in. The first pack of zergling can easily be taken care of by scv. Once your wall is up, you pretty much have the game won. Unless you royally suck you will be at such a huge eco advantage.