I wouldn't trade Ming for O'Neal especially Jermaine O'Neal. That is a bad question to start ur first thread with.
I think Yao Ming will have a fine NBA career but give me a break. <i>Wouldn't trade him for Shaq?</i> <i>Already better than Jermaine O'neal will ever be?</i> The expectations some of you are putting on this guy are ridiculous.
The winner of the Tourney had Divac and Pedro(SP), they played in the NBA Conf Finals, then they went home to practice with the their team. That's about the same amount of time the USA Team had together. Granted, The Yugos probably played together before but that I"m not sure about. It's not the fans the players are playing for, it's their country. I guess that was lost somewhere. It's suppose to be an honor to represent your country AND a responsibility if your team is the super heavy favorite to win. That last statement is just funny, THEY DIDN'T so they get the S**T from the fan. Complete players don't just score and rebound. There are other aspects that make Ming better than J. O'Neal right now. How good a passer is O'Neal? Does he change the offensive game plans of opposing coaches? Can he be left alone one on one on defense? I think you know what I'm talking about. I'm hoping that during the first part of the season, Ming is taken for granted by the opposition and he 75%(scoring) them for doing so. Then they start to double team him and he assists them to death. Wouldn't that be great. I could almost see it in Steve's eyes now, "give ball to Ming, he scores, I get assist, he dish back to me on a cut or I'm all alone on the 3pt line, I score....." I'm looking forward to the start of the season.
Wait a minute . . . maybe he has a good point about a trade . . . He's just looking for the wrong offer . . . Where's Chucky Brown?
Diva has been playing for the Yugos for about 15 years now and Peja has played with them before also. This does not even take into account that the non-NBA players have been with the team for years. For most of the US it was their 1st international competition. Heck, some of the players have NEVER seen the NBA playoffs. Also I don't understand the logic of this boards evaluation of Ming's talent. Now you say you wouldn't trade him for anybody in the league, however, this supposedly GREAT untradeable 7'5" force in the middle is supposed to defer to Steve Francis and Cut Mobely. Let's see, name one other dominant center who came into the NBA and deferred to anybody? It just doesn't happen. A coach who has a dominant center and runs the offense through a PG is crazy. So which is it for Yao: Future star or glorified role player?
Peirce is in no way dominant in the same manor as Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dream, Jordan or Shaq. If you want to put him on the same level as someone like Dominique Wilkens then fine but he is certainly not in the same category of the truly dominant players that have played this game. The Rockets have done their homework on Yao's health and I have faith in their decision. Besides everyone likes to talk about all the 7'4" footers that had joint problems, how about the ones that did not such as Bradley and Manute Bol. Both players played a good amount of minutes with Bradley avging 26.5 minutes a game for his career. Bol never complained about joint, foot or back problems and was never injury prone. Bradley likewise has never been injury prone and he has been in the league for 9 years that’s about 671 hrs and 20 minutes with no real injuries. If you look at Bradley's career he has been just as healthy as Dream has been during his career. Aren’t you glad the Rockets drafted Dream? I am. I believe that Yao is in much better shape and much healthier than either Bradley or Bol. I personally would not be willing to pass up on a talent like Yao Ming because he might get injured when he has no history of injuries and he has no medical problems that indicate a serious injury is probable.
some of you people need to wake up and realize that ming is not the 2nd coming of jesus christ. he will be a good player in the league, but it is gonna take him years to develop. he still has so much to learn about basketball and about the culture. anyone who wouldnt trade ming for shaq or KG or duncan or mcgrady or nowitzki or webber or someone of that level is dumb. these guys are already polished and can dominate games. ming simply cannot do this and to expect him to be able to be like that within the next 4 or 5 years i think is too much to ask. we simply don't know if ming is going to become injury prone, like other very big men, or even going to be able to develop into a perenial (sp?) all star like those other guys. p.s. crash...those guys you mentioned also sucked
Ming will bring millions of fans and nobody else in the league can do it like Ming. Please don't trade Ming for any players. I doubt I can find a board like cc.net anywhere else. You all know I will follow Ming wherever he goes.
Rik Smits numbers: 12 years 72.25 avg games played per year 26.6 avg minutes per game link: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rik_smits/ If you are trying to use Smits as a reason not to draft Yao then I think you should try another avenue. Sabonis 6 years 65 avg games a year 25.9 avg minutes a year Since Sabonis was an old and previously injured vet by the time the blazers got him I think he has been very effective and durable. Try again. Both Sabonis and Smits had long good careers as pro's and I would take that from Yao. About Bradley and Bol We are not comparing their basketball ability to that of Yao's we simply making a physical comparison due to their size. Since there is a limited number of players that have played in the league at their size then we must use them as an example. So there is 4 examples of players that have had long professional Careers. While Bradley and Bol were not very good players they both logged a significant amount of minutes and years with out any health problems. While Sabonis and Smits both had some problems they did not experience any problems that kept them from having long effective careers.
ha ha ha trade yao ming??? is this a joke?....... .................oh it's not a joke it's his first post....hahaha
Originally posted by Verbatim The winner of the Tourney had Divac and Pedro(SP), they played in the NBA Conf Finals, then they went home to practice with the their team. That's about the same amount of time the USA Team had together. Granted, The Yugos probably played together before but that I"m not sure about. Yeah Divac and Peja were on the winning team and they've only been playing together with the Kings for about 4 seasons of playoff basketball on top of the time they've spent with their national team. Nevermind the other players on the Yugo team who practice and play together. How in the world is that "about the same amount of time the USA team had together"? It's not the fans the players are playing for, it's their country. I guess that was lost somewhere. It's suppose to be an honor to represent your country AND a responsibility if your team is the super heavy favorite to win. Only an idiot is going to tell me that the Worlds is the same as the NBA. See how nice that sounds when someone takes your insult and throws it back at you? Americans don't care about the Worlds unless we lose, repeat over and again until you get it. You can try to get all patriotic on me about representing your country but Americans care more about the NBA championship than who did what or didn't show up at the Worlds. Complete players don't just score and rebound. There are other aspects that make Ming better than J. O'Neal right now. How good a passer is O'Neal? Does he change the offensive game plans of opposing coaches? Can he be left alone one on one on defense? I think you know what I'm talking about. Oh now we're talking about complete players? Is this where you tell me Yao is a complete player and Shaq isn't because he can't shoot free throws or shoot beyond 5 feet so of course Yao is the better player. Yeah okay. I'm hoping that during the first part of the season, Ming is taken for granted by the opposition and he 75%(scoring) them for doing so. Then they start to double team him and he assists them to death. Wouldn't that be great. If you think Ming is going to shoot 75% then you go get your wallet or your checkbook because I'll take some of that action right now.
Originally posted by crash5179 Peirce is in no way dominant in the same manor as Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dream, Jordan or Shaq. If you want to put him on the same level as someone like Dominique Wilkens then fine but he is certainly not in the same category of the truly dominant players that have played this game. Dream wasn't dominant throughout his career on level with those players and Shaq maybe just barely. Bird had 3 MVP's and 3 titles, Magic had 3 MVP's and 5 titles, Jordan had 5 MVP's and 6 titles, and Jabbar had 6 MVP's and 6 titles. If you think Yao is going to be on par with those type of numbers then seriously you're out of your damn mind. The Rockets have done their homework on Yao's health and I have faith in their decision. Besides everyone likes to talk about all the 7'4" footers that had joint problems, how about the ones that did not such as Bradley and Manute Bol. Both players played a good amount of minutes with Bradley avging 26.5 minutes a game for his career. Bol never complained about joint, foot or back problems and was never injury prone. Bradley likewise has never been injury prone and he has been in the league for 9 years that’s about 671 hrs and 20 minutes with no real injuries. If you look at Bradley's career he has been just as healthy as Dream has been during his career. Aren’t you glad the Rockets drafted Dream? I am. Bol and Bradley were unathletic paper weight stiffs. This isn't the case with Yao. If Yao is going to be Mr mutiple MVP's and multiple NBA titles he's sure as heck not going to be playing 26 minutes a game. And why do you continue to fail to recognize that Yao will be playing basketball all year long? None of these players have had to do that in the modern era. I believe that Yao is in much better shape and much healthier than either Bradley or Bol. I personally would not be willing to pass up on a talent like Yao Ming because he might get injured when he has no history of injuries and he has no medical problems that indicate a serious injury is probable. This thread wasn't about drafting him, but rather if you'd trade him for USA Team players. The Celtics and Pacers would not be willing to give up their own stars for Yao.
Originally posted by crash5179 Rik Smits numbers: 12 years 72.25 avg games played per year 26.6 avg minutes per game link: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rik_smits/ If you are trying to use Smits as a reason not to draft Yao then I think you should try another avenue. I used Smits as a probability for injury problems, Nowhere in here are we talking about whether or not to draft Yao. Sabonis 6 years 65 avg games a year 25.9 avg minutes a year Since Sabonis was an old and previously injured vet by the time the blazers got him I think he has been very effective and durable. Try again. Try what again? I said Sabonis wasn't the same player after his severe injury that he was before it. This is acknowledged pretty universally. Both Sabonis and Smits had long good careers as pro's and I would take that from Yao. Oh so now it's okay for Yao to have a good long career of 26 minutes per game... what happened to on par with Jordan, Magic, and Bird? Rick Smits averaged 15pts/6 rebs for his career and Sabonis is at 13pts/8 rebs for his career. If you'll take that from Yao's career why wouldn't you trade him for Paul Pierce or Jermaine O'Neal? That makes no sense at all. We are not comparing their basketball ability to that of Yao's we simply making a physical comparison due to their size. Since there is a limited number of players that have played in the league at their size then we must use them as an example. Use them all as an example, not the only two who never had problems. And throw in another one in Zydrunas Ilgauskas from Cleveland, he's 7'3". That's seven players over 7'2" and five of them with chronic or serious injury problems. Again, none of them having to play year round basketball like Yao. So there is 4 examples of players that have had long professional Careers. While Bradley and Bol were not very good players they both logged a significant amount of minutes and years with out any health problems. While Sabonis and Smits both had some problems they did not experience any problems that kept them from having long effective careers. You know you started off talking about Larry, Magic, and Jordan and now we're down to long effective careers.
The notion of tall men being injury prone also apply to big men like Shaq. Shaq is having trouble with his toes. So are many 7 foot and 300+ pounds dudes. To link height to injury potential is one sided. Weight has more to do with it. If Shaq can hold up for ten years before his joints break down, who's to say Yao can't or do better in this aspect? Yao is 5 inches taller than Shaq, but Shaq is 30-40 pounds heavier than Yao. Maybe Shaq shouldn't be drafted into the NBA 'cuz people worry about his frame can't hold up that 330 pounds of weight? Plus, the Rockets are making orthopedic and ergonomic custom made shoes for extra tall people like Yao, which will supposedly relieve stress on Yao's joints as cushions. Unless other tall players like Ralph Sampson used them, which I don't think so, this is a clear advantage Yao will enjoy over his predecessors. If that's the case, there's little merit in comparing Yao with previous injury plagued big men since their preparation is different. Yao's gonna play games in the summer for improvement anyway. He's going to play year round no matter what. Remember MoT who tore his tendon in a summer practice? or Jordan breaking his rib in a summer practice? All the players who want to get better play through summer, so do Francis and Mobley. This is not even a valid point on injury potential, unless you believe Yao shouldn't play games in the summer at all. Oh yeah, why not cancel the summer league as well 'cuz it clearly increase NBA players' chance for injury. Even Yao gets injured from playing more, it doesn't mean it'll be career ending or develop into a chronicle problem. In fact, very unlikely so. Basically what I'm saying is, I'm not worrying at all.
Timing, 1. I used Smits as a probability for injury problems, Nowhere in here are we talking about whether or not to draft Yao. No but we were talking about trading him so the same argument applies. 2. Try what again? I said Sabonis wasn't the same player after his severe injury that he was before it. This is acknowledged pretty universally. Sabonis was a 31 year old rookie that had suffered a major injury. I think 15 pts and 8 rebounds a game is very good for someone like that. While it is acknowledged universally that he was not the same person as he was before the pre NBA injury it is also acknowledged universally that he was a pretty damn good player. And yes I think Yao has the potential to be better than the pre injury Sabonis. 2. Oh so now it's okay for Yao to have a good long career of 26 minutes per game... what happened to on par with Jordan, Magic, and Bird? The 26 minutes per game is an example of those players ability to be healthy enough to play and play effectively. I think you already know that, don’t you. Staying healthy is the main thing you are worried about with Yao…right? The center position in the NBA is at almost at an all time low. Outside of Shaq and his big toe, there are no Dreams, Ewings, Jabbars, Robinsons, Parishs or Malones like there were in the 80’s and early 90’s. When Ben Wallace and Vlade Divac are considered an all stars then that tells us all we need to know about the center position in the NBA today. Yao can pass, block shots and shoot the rock at a remarkable percentage so he does have the potential to impact the NBA like Jordan, Magic or Bird before his career is over. 3. Use them all as an example, not the only two who never had problems. And throw in another one in Zydrunas Ilgauskas from Cleveland, he's 7'3". That's seven players over 7'2" and five of them with chronic or serious injury problems. Again, none of them having to play year round basketball like Yao. Not a problem, it shows that some big men have problems and some don’t. But if you are going to drop from 7’4” to 7’3” why not go ahead and drop to 7’2”? But it starts to get a little ridiculous doesn’t it. The whole point of this debate is to show you that the prospect of Yao being done in 3 or 4 years because his bones and joints will not support his height is getting just a little too paranoid. There are plenty of examples of players that have long effective careers that stood over 7’3” tall, of course none have the talent or potential that I think Yao has. 4. You know you started off talking about Larry, Magic, and Jordan and now we're down to long effective careers. Once again, you know the point I was making had to do with Yao’s health and not how good he would be so why not stop trying to re-define my words to make them fit your needs. I still think Yao has the potential to be in the same class as Dream, Malone, Kareem, Jordan, Bird and Magic. 5. Dream wasn't dominant throughout his career on level with those players and Shaq maybe just barely. Bird had 3 MVP's and 3 titles, Magic had 3 MVP's and 5 titles, Jordan had 5 MVP's and 6 titles, and Jabbar had 6 MVP's and 6 titles. If you think Yao is going to be on par with those type of numbers then seriously you're out of your damn mind. Dream was just as dominant if not more so than Jordan as a rookie and in his early years. Dream was the best center in the NBA almost from his first NBA season. Maybe Malone and Jabbar had a slight edge his first year but that was it. Also if the Rockets had managed to keep the team out of drug problems and injury problems then Dream might be wearing more than just two rings and he might have won a bunch of them in the 80’s. Exactly what makes you think Yao can not achieve the same type of success as Dream? I see Yao as having potential that is very similar to Kareem. 6. Bol and Bradley were unathletic paper weight stiffs. This isn't the case with Yao. If Yao is going to be Mr mutiple MVP's and multiple NBA titles he's sure as heck not going to be playing 26 minutes a game. And why do you continue to fail to recognize that Yao will be playing basketball all year long? None of these players have had to do that in the modern era. It is well known that Dream spent his summers at Fonde going up against Moses Malone. Players today have the summer pro leagues and other leagues they play in almost all summer long. We are constantly getting reports from Westside about Eddie or Cat or MoT. The Rockets will have Yao except for the WBC and Olympics. This is the agreement so Yao Ming will be spending a lot of his time in Houston during the off months working out in the Rockets off-season programs. 7. This thread wasn't about drafting him, but rather if you'd trade him for USA Team players. The Celtics and Pacers would not be willing to give up their own stars for Yao. That is good because none of them have the upside that Yao has. I feel pretty secure in saying that Rudy T and CD would not be willing to listen to offers of Oneal, Wallace or Peirce for Yao. BTW don’t you find it just a little odd that O’Neal only avg’d 5 minutes a game less than Yao and his numbers paled in comparison? I do. He shot .510 from the floor, .432 from the line, 4.5 rebounds, 1.75 blocks and just 7.3 points against basically the same competition that Yao faced.
I guess you don't read very well, but then I think you are just typing as fast as you can to defend your position. That's OK, debate is good, calling me an idiot, well, it takes one to know one. And by the way, I really don't believe I insulted you. But then you might have mistaken me for all the others who think Ming might be a PRETTY GOOD PLAYER and you don't have a leg to stand on. Patriotic is what the Team should have being thinking about. The World Championships might not be popular with the fans... nevermind, you think what you want. And really, it doesn't matter what we all think about Ming. He has to play in the NBA and then all questions will be answered. Then again, that won't be enough for you right? Unless he's the rookie of the year, takes the team to the finals and is the league and finals MVP, Ming is a bust. Will most people with some sort of basketball knowledge, knowing what the Rockets need, seeing the potential that Ming represents and seeing what he did in the Worlds, be willing to trade him for anyone on that 6th placed Team USA? Probably not. I never said no for a Tuncan and Ming straight up trade(no Eddie). But I'd rather see Ming grow on the Rockets with Steve and Eddie. I'm bias because I happen to like to see a fellow asian play for the Rockets. It will sell more tickets because I will go to the games more PERIOD.
Would you guys really want Shaq with the rockets? Duncan maybe, cuz he's not arrogant. But even if the Rockets won the championship, it'd be hollow cuz a.) You didn't "take" it from supposely the best (Shaq and Kobe combo). b.) Alot of people here that ragged on Shaq will have to either convert or choose another team. c.) Who would be more exciting to watch... Shaq or Ming. I personally think Shaq is boring cuz he don't dribble, or shoot any j's and stands mostly in one place for 35 minutes. Not to mention his FT forms are just aweful. BTW. I'm a Kings fan so even if the Lakers wanted to GIVE us Shaq, I'd wouldn't want him. It's not business... just personal.
