And Dwight Howard is, by general consensus, the best center in the game. I don't see how Oden's lack of a polished post game disqualifies him from being top 10. Yao is a better post player. Oden has the potential to be a fantastic rebounder/defender.
A recovering Yao is better than a recovering Oden any day of the week. These rankings are terrible. Fans can write better lists. Why hire this guy?
Oden's problem is that, even when healthy, he was very foul prone. He has averaged 6.4 fouls per 36 min over his career. Yao, in comparison, has averaged 3.6. His efficiency stats are very good, yes, even without a post game. The problem is that he doesn't really know how to play defense without fouling. Remember how in the Portland/Houston series Yao had Oden perpetually in foul trouble? That was no fluke. Some other foul rates/36 min: Dwight Howard 3.3 Andrew Bynum 4.1 Chris Kaman 3.6 Oden at 6.4 is the clear outlier. Even in Yao's worst season (his 3rd), he was only at 4.4. While in theory players could improve on this, the stats don't bear this out. Most centers are in the 3-4 range, and stay in that range their entire career. I do like KD's work, but I just think he is clearly wrong on this one. It's not simply a question of comparing whose injuries have been more serious b/w Yao and Oden. Both are bad, but Yao has shown the ability to come back from a similar injury and play at high level. Oden's numbers have been very suspicious from the start b/c efficiency stats mask the fact that he can't keep himself in the game. He's still only at 22 min per game over his career. What's even more troubling is that Oden's game is based on athleticism and size, rather than skill. He's not a good dribbler, shooter, or passer, while Yao is above average in all these areas for a center. Even Dwight Howard has a lot more skill than Oden. Despite his postgame shortcomings, Howard has a very advanced understanding of the pick and roll on both offense and defense. Oden does not.
In comparison, Oden hasn't played in nearly a year, his minutes will be limited, his availability game to game is still a question mark, and he hasn't completed a season without a major injury in his entire career. No one really knows how good he will be, but it's safe to assume that he won't be as good as a player who has always been much better than him, is further along health-wise than him, and has the better work ethic. Pretty terrible list/commentary.
NOTHING is safe to assume with Yao when it comes to his durability. So, what we have here is people whining over the projected rankings of two unknowns. I think its a little ridiculous. When I see two huge question marks next to eachother on a list like this, to me that's basically a wash. He probably thinks Yao's injuries are related to the inevitable stress his 7'6, 300+ lb frame puts on his feet, while Oden's injuries have been more fluky. Who really cares if he thinks its slightly more likely that Oden has a better year than Yao? People take the orderings in these lists too literally -- as if he's proclaiming Oden will be better than Yao. That's not the case.
NOTHING is safe to assume with Oden when it comes to his durability. Two question marks. The first question mark has always been better than the other question mark. The first question mark is less of a question mark than the second question mark. Which question mark do you take? Take your time. The logical gymnastics you'd have to do to assume Oden would have a better year than Yao throws Dwyer's entire silly list into irrelevance. Well, further into irrelevance.
One can't be a fanboy of both Morey and Dwyer. If Yao rates to be only the 11th best center in the league, then Morey must be an idiot for not trading Yao.
I don't assume either player will be better than the other, because their injury situation makes it impossible for me to forecast with any confidence how good they'll be. That's why I think its nutty to take offense when one is projected to rank 11th and the other 10th. Would it make you feel better if Yao was 10th and Oden was 11th? To me, that's immaterial. Yao hasn't played basketball in over a year. At least wait for him to play some games before crying that he's not getting enough respect.
guys. i think it is perfectly OK for Yao to be ranked as 11 before the season even starts. Yao produced 0-0-0 last season. ppl like bynum did play quite a number of games. they should ranked before Yao, although they have serious injuries as well. Yao's condition is still unknow to all of us. As a rockets fan, as a Yao fan, I am confident that he is still one of the top centres in the league. but other ppl may not think the same as us, becasuse the don't know Yao well enough. if Kelly Dwyer were to post another ranking after 20 games, Yao would be in the top five, at least.
Kelly Dwyer's take on centers... Kelly Dwyer's take on centers is absolutely freaking bulldookie. i was willing to give him some grace nay, a lot of grace, for the other ridiculous rankings (Lowry at 30?, Brooks at 21?, Scola at 14? Martin at 10?), and i know he really appreciates defense, which is why he's such a huge Pippen fan. but Brad Miller at 28? Yao at 12? not just Rockets players, but Okur at 30, Perkins at 31, and Ericka Dampier (the self proclaimed second best center in the league) at 32? looks like Perkins and Dampier have no business starting at center. i know clutchfans love to hate on Dampier and Okur, but 32 and 30? Tyson Chandler's also at 26. remember how much people here wanted to get him? also, Dwyer really seems to love Ilgauskas for putting him in all the pictures, but forgot to rank him. unless he's number 33? http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...2-through-23?urn=nba-265324#remaining-content http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...2-through-12?urn=nba-265420#remaining-content http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...t=Avk6XhpMuAW2Q7tG2Cy_rQG8vLYF?urn=nba-265548
lot of people say that Yao is only going to play limited minutes, but there are less than 10 starting centers playing more than 31 mpg, so even if Yao only averages 25 mpg (almost 32 mpg for his career and 33+ mpg the last 4 years), that ranking is still unacceptable.
Just a guess, but even if Yao was REALLY the 11th best center in the league, he'd continue to be a Rocket. And I don't think Morey would have much say in the matter. $ rules.
Given they list Varejao, I am guessing there will be a bunch of PFs in there like Bosh and maybe even Dirk in the next half of the list.
I just don't get why greg oden is ranked higher than yao... He's missed so much more time than yao in the last few years
Nevertheless, Oden was ranked above Yao. Based on...what? The assumption that his injuries aren't related? His whole body seems to be breaking down. It has been since college. That alone should be reason enough to consider Oden an injury waiting to happen. Did Dwyer not account for playing style? Or perhaps Oden's body is similar to T-Mac's in that there is structural deficiencies galore. The fact that Oden is ranked above Yao means that Dwyer expects him to have a better year than Yao, however marginal his advantages might be. Our beef is that Oden is in no way, shape or form better than Yao as a center. Not marginally, not significantly, nothing. We expect Yao to blow this guy out of the water, and for good reason. Ranking Greg Oden, who plays 22 mpg every year, and is subsequently injured every year, doesn't make sense. He's not durable, and he was never as good as Yao was. What makes this year any different?
First of all, I don't think its quite correct to say that this ranking means Dwyer expects Oden to have a better year. Again, to me this is taking it too literally. "Expect" is too strong a word here -- I don't think Dwyer would bet money on Oden having a better year. They are 10th and 11th respectively and the projections for them must be far less precise than for others due to their injury history; for all intents and purposes neither is really "expected" to be any better than the other. What makes this year different? Yao has never missed an entire season and had to come back with a reconstructed foot. He's probably going to play the fewest minutes he's played since his rookie season -- perhaps less even than that. He's going to be joining a team with a more diversified offensive attack including two bonified 20-point scorers, meaning they won't rely on his post-up game nearly as much. The Rockets and Yao have said that they hope he'll be back to himself towards the end of the season. Meaning there's going to be a very lengthy adjustment period for him as he reorients himself to an ever-evolving league and new teammates. Oh, and Yao is two years older -- history doesn't look so good for 30 year old giants.
It's chilling to see honesty and hard work pay off in plaudits when the results of it falls in line with the best case scenario for a certain area's hometown team; and then quickly devolve into insults and attacks upon one's profession and work ethic once the same honesty and hard work and the extension of such flies in the face of the best case scenario regarding players working for a certain area's hometown team. I'm the same. It's the colors on this board that are bleeding, now that they don't get their way. And, silly me, I assumed better. I should have known, because I've been reading nonsense from you guys for years (so many pathetic players and moves and lineups and hopes that have passed through this website and board since the Barkley trade, that you just lapped up without hesitation), but for some reason, I hung in there. The overwhemling majority of you lot have been revealed as hypocritical and beyond league-wide reason. You can warm to it when it feels good, and yet can't muster smart and strong when it stings a bit. All you have to do is be as smart as your intelligence allows you to be, and yet you're clouded by whatever bobblehead is on your desk. Pity. Your center, who might be my favorite player -- turns 30 in two weeks and hasn't played 80 games since 2004-05 and has only played over 34 minutes once in his career. He's thought, by me, to be the 11th-best center in the NBA in 2010-11; mainly because (I hope, because I want to see him earn a ring) he'll only play about 28-29 minutes per game in that season. Dare I even get into the defensive end of things? Greg Oden, who doesn't have the same foot breaking over and over, is 22 and will have no such minute restriction. And he's pegged one slot higher in a list that means absolutely nothing. One slot, you whimpering pillocks. Good god.
DH's health, age and offensive efficiency (60% FG) is taken into account when people call him the best center in the league. I fail to see why Oden will be ranked as high when he's struggled with fouls when healthy and has obviously missed a ton of games the past two seasons (more than Yao has to be quite honest). What people keep pointing out is that Dwyer ranks Oden as he if he expects him to be 100% healthy, but don't give Yao the same benefit of the doubt. If Yao will get reduced minutes why will Oden get a ton? Just like Yao, Oden will be recovering from injuries, and just like Yao Oden has a capable center on the team (pryzbilla, that c from the nugs). Bringing up the "P" word doesn't really make sense, as this rankings are just for the upcoming season alone. Unless you're saying Oden will tap 100% into his potential in just one season alone?
