What I do not support is you mentioning the fact that extremist groups do not disrupt humanitary efforts like something we should be thankful for. They should be thankful for receiving the aid.
You sound like you are bitter about them getting aid. Of course they should be grateful but from enlightened self-interest there is a bigger picture which is that which improves the image among the populations where the extremists draw their support from helps us.
No, I am happy if the right people receive the aid. But you take such a wimpy, soft stance - like you have to be THANKFUL that these extremists ALLOW the aid in. The problem with giving aid to countries like Pakistan is that history shows that much of it doesn't get to the people who most need it. It is probably safe to assume that some of it will finance new weapons and motorbikes for the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Yes if it helps us. I mean should we not be glad that a humanitarian strategy has the potential to help us? What is your point here? Are you saying we shouldn't give aid because the are ungrateful SOB's? Keep in mind that most of the aid given to Pakistan by the US history was given to what has been for the most part an important US ally. That during the Cold War we felt was necessary to counterbalance the Soviet and Chinese presence in that area. But anyway are you saying that we shouldn't give aid now since some of it might siphoned off for corrupt reasons? I agree we need more accountability in distributing aid and has someone who has worked first hand in seeing aid distributed I agree. That is no reason to not give aid as the repurcussions of that will only lead strengthening extremists and forces hostile to the US.
Actually, I am not the one hurling the insults. And the fact that the ISI (Pakistani secret service) has been supporting the Taliban, diverting foreign aid to them, is well-known and backed up by reputable news sources.
There are plenty of reliable news sources saying that the ISI diverted previous humanitarian aid funds to the Taliban. You are just arguing like a stubborn child for the sake of arguing. Even fellow Muslims are embarrassed for you and similar posters such as BEAT LA.
Please show me one news source with proof that the ISI is diverting flood funds to the Taliban. All Germans are embarrased of you and Hitlers rants.
Why do other Muslim posters not speak out against this nonsense? I notice that the Muslim posters almost always unite to speak up against any of my posts, but no matter how ludicrous posts by other Muslim posters are (e.g. BEAT LA and adeelsiddiqui), no other Muslim poster ever says anything. I find this interesting.
What I will say is I personally wouldn't trust the pakistan government with aid, Zirdari is a crook plain and simple and doesn't have a sense of civic duty towards the people. Nonetheless, there are charities and networks which go directly to where help is needed that would suffice so not wanting to help because it won't ever see the people who need it, where you just have to make sure you donate to the right person. Could you answer the questions in my last post, ATW, I am curious if outside of what you have seen in the media, have you ever come across a violent muslim with such though and views portrayed in the media?
Seriously man? I'm not Muslim and I have tons of questions about the ISI but he asked a reasonable question. He just wanted documentation that the ISI is diverting flood aid. I personally dont trust the Pakistani government because they have a terrible history when it comes to managing aid money but this crisis is so serious and devastating that its worth it to take those risks. Too many people's lives are in jeopardy. Even if you cant find an article there's enough historical evidence to question the ISI (their connections to the Taliban are pretty solid) but instead of explaining that clearly you hurl a silly and irrelevant statement about other muslims not criticizing him as if being Muslim has anything to do with this. You tunnel vision on the fact that someone is Muslim a lot when its not relevant. If you think his view is wrong thats fine but why in the the world are criticisms from other people that share his same religion mean anything. It honestly goes to a larger point. Muslims ARE NOT a monolithic and homogeneous group. Hell Pakistan is a great example, it is historically and culturally distinct from the Middle East. Yet you treat their common religion as some sort of factor that makes them all the same. Its easy to feel that its all the same because radical Wahabi styles of Islam have been exported to other Muslim countries and its easier to focus on that and draw conclusions. But that simply isnt true and I feel like you tend to reflect that viewpoint way too often in your posting style.
OK the Pakistani Government sucks...big time. Yes, ISI has previously distributed funds to the Taliban. That is why everyone(even Muslims) is reiterating to not give the government any aid because there is no guarantee it will reach the victims. Muslims are encouraged to donate to reputable charity organizations and there are many. Also just to make it clear, women are not oppressed in Islam. Yes, they are oppressed under some government regimes but that is not purely "Islamic". Men and women are given different roles in life in Islam but in the eyes of God, we are all equal. Just ask any Muslim woman in the US why they wear hijab. They do so out of choice/God's orders and they are 100% content and willing to do so. Another thing, I don't post a whole lot and only when I feel like because of my laziness( ) and am busy with other things. I am not really interested in long, drawn out debates so that's another reason I mostly lurk. Also ATW, I have spoken out against BEAT LA about his ludicrous/immature posts a couple times and he is an idiot.
I was referring, among many other "gems" he posted today, to this part: If you consider this "reasonable", well... Seriously - I noticed that the Muslim posters almost never seem to criticize each other or call each other out or correct each other, unless it becomes a discussion about interpretation of the Quran (between Sunnis and Shiites, I assume). I am sure that some of the more reasonable Muslim posters, no matter how much they disagree with me on certain questions, must cringe when they read some of the juvenile and out-of-line stuff by people like BEAT LA and adeelsiddiqui. Yet, I hardly ever (if ever) see another Muslim poster correcting them or telling them to stop it, while at the same time putting plenty of effort into arguing with me. Edit: With the notable exception of BrownBeast99, whom I have a lot of respect for.
Okay, I accept that criticism. I understand that it is not all the same historically, but as you yourself say, the radical Wahabi style of Islam has been exported to other Muslim countries. Maybe the real question is how to stop that from happening. I know this might sound crazy, but has anyone ever wondered if instead of invading Iraq, one would have invaded Saudi Arabia and displaced the rulers there and would have freed that country (I am not talking about how that would have been legal or anything, just making up a hypothetical scenario), would the world be a better place now? Regarding the ISI/Pakistani government and misappropriation of funds, a poster just sent me this info (thank you, by the way):
I agree that's stupid. That said no one spoke out against that except you. I read that and just thought it was dumb but didnt bother posting. I'm sure many, Muslim or not, thought the same way. You're painting such a broad brush here. But hey since you brought it up I'll also say that 99% of Hitler references are offensive and marginalize how horrible the Nazi regime was. So Adeel, that was a stupid thing to say. First of all there arent that many Muslim posters to begin with. Second, you're making such a vast assumption on such a small sample of data. Third, who gives a ****. I just find it annoying that one has to denounce others just because you share a religion. I see Hindu nationalists burn a mosque in India and while I think its disgusting I also think its silly that as a fellow Hindu I would have to go out of my way to denounce it publicly. Just because people share a common religion doesn't turn that into a burden to somehow denounce anything silly just because of a shared religion. That was my point earlier. Islam isnt a monolithic religion where everyone is identical. So its such a silly burden to demand that Muslims publicly denounce every crazy statement or crazy Muslim. Adeel mightve said some stupid stuff (I havent really been paying attention) but just point it out and move on. No need to then start calling out every other Muslim and assume that because they didnt post anything they agree with the post.
