Republicans trying to burn the Constitution and disgusted by immigrants

Read the law. Parents are granted waivers for hardship. Guess how many parents claim a hardship? I'm guessing about 98% of them. BTW, what is the effect of having your parents deported and staying with a foster parent or being deported yourself and moving away from your home? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Obviously this is the solution to the problem that doesn't exist.

 

You're combining two different arguments which are actually... different. Now you're argument is that we can't hold illegals accountable for the laws they break because they're not tax payers. That's f'n brilliant.

 

You're wasting my time.

 

You said you were on a train in a latino neighborhood and you said this..

What I saw was a lot of people coming and going from jobs working hard, raising their families and looking after their community.

You don't know who was coming from where and why or if they had families or who worked hard or who looked after their community. You made a bunch of BS assumptions about a group of people you didn't know. The facts is you don't know who was hard working and who was a gang member. You don't know who was legal or who was illegal. You didn't know anything other than what a brief glimpse could provide. You don't even know if they were Mexican or not yet you assumed they were. Assuming based on race that all of those people were hard working family people who were good community members is RACIST. I pointed out that you couldn't have the first clue who was who and so I provided negative examples to the positive examples you provided.

They are obviously not subject to the same laws since NINETY EIGHT percent of illegal immigration cases are not prosecuted.

 

No, I'm not saying we can't hold illegals accountable for the laws they break. I didn't give my opinion at all. I pointed out that you were complaining about tax payer dollars being spent on illegal immigrants and at the same time demanding that more tax dollars be spent on imprisoning illegal immigrants, when we could just deport them instead.

 

Dude, how many times do I need to repeat the statistic. For every Canadian illegal there are 100 Mexican illegals. If you had a white neighborhood and a black neighborhood and the black neighborhood had 100 times the murder rate of the white neighborhood... would you maybe have more cops patrolling the black neighborhood so people don't get killed or are you going to cry racism and let people keep getting killed? Use some common sense, goodness.

I favor fair trade. If someone doesn't open up their markets to you then they don't get access to our markets. I think globalization blows and I agree it's a bigger threat to US labor than illegal immigration. I would favor putting massive tariffs depending on the situation.

You can't get a TX driver's license without a social security number and proof of birth or residency. No illegal alien who isn't forging documents illegally can obtain a driver's license without breaking the law. You're just providing another reason why illegal immigration is such a problem. Document fraud is a serious issue when people can sneak into the system that way.

 

I never thought I'd see the day Rocketsjudoka gets called a racist and told he's wasting someone's time.

I don't agree with his opinions on a lot of things, but man, the guy is as educated and nuanced in his opinions and certainly does not make B.S. assumptions.

Maybe it's time for me to stop posting in D&D. Seems to be a cesspool of demagoguing of late.

 

Since you like being combative and yet dont bother to answer half the things people post I'm going to ask you once again?

Do you believe the rules as written make sense as an immigration policy? In other words is the only problem just our lack enforcement of the rules and not the rules themselves?

 

I can understand not imprisoning hundreds of thousands of people for it but I don't understand not fining them. They can fine from $50 to $250 the first offense and double that for a second offense. That's a pretty good way to pay for enforcement.

 

He called me a racist for posting illegal immigration statistics. In fact that's his only line of argument here. Here's a stat, racist. Here's a quote, racist. Here's a woman on TV explaining how she violates immigration law, racist. It's absurd. And yet he made value judgements of people on a train based on their race and even based on looks made the assumption that they were all Mexican. Maybe you both need to look up the word racist.

 

There are illegal Germans, French, Dutch, and Swiss - yet I don't see anyone complaining about them.

Why is everyone so hard up to stop a Mexican versus a German. C'mon - let's not play games here. We all know why and race is the center of that issue.

 

Dude I've responded to a ton of stuff here. I have a life. If I don't respond to something then it's generally because I don't have time, don't think it's worthy of a response, or it's something I feel I already addressed.

The effects of illegal immigration are my primary concern, the rules on immigration are not. As I've said, immigration is not a right. The problem is primarily our lack of border control. The rules themselves as well as the 14th amendment as well as poor enforcement are all incentive for people to come here illegally. If there are incentives for bad behavior and no consequences for getting caught then it'll obviously continue.

 

I'm complaining about them, there's just nowhere near as many of them. Send them all home. Have them come back when their paperwork is in order.

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

I haven't gone through the thread but I seriously doubt he called you racist and he did it for citing illegal immigrations statistics. Maybe you are confusing him with me, because I do think you are advocating discrimination based on race and have prejudices against Mexicans.

There are racist elements in everyone, and I can't speak for him, but I do get the sense that some of your views is based on a dislike for Mexicans in general. I'll explain why I have that view point:

Like I said, you don't seem to call for action against illegal Europeans. They may be a smaller number, but why do they get to stay and Mexicans have to go?

And the idea that illegal immigration is a national security issue is just ridiculous - 9/11 terrorists came here legally and many of the other guys were U.S. citizens. Problem has never been illegal immigrants from Mexico. Why are you trying to raise this as an issue?

Furthermore, the Mexicans here do come here for jobs, and they also leave when the jobs dry up. They don't come here because the love America and want to eat McDonalds or give their babies a better life.

They come here so they can make money. Do you think some Mexican bum wants to pay $10,000 to get to the U.S. so they can collect Social Security? Are you for real? Do you think they do that for that stuff? No man, they do it because they can make a lot more money here. They come here to work. And when the economy drops, they leave.

Why is it that when illegal Mexicans are leaving the U.S. by the 100's of thousands in the past few years because there is no more work, all of a sudden the Tea Party says this is a "growing" problem.

No. The facts show that it is in fact shrinking.

That's why I think you are biased, because your argument is built on falsehoods and aren't consistent to other groups. If it was, if you presented a case that true and not about race, no one would accuse you of playing the racist card - at least not me.

And it's the way you are arguing.

First you say the cause crime, then people show you that in fact they reduce crime. So your counter is that they are all criminals because they are here illegally! And that crime is far worse than burglary. When you pull those kinds of shenanigans it sure seems like you just want to put Mexicans down rather than actually talk about illegal immigration.

Fact is the Tea Party is playing on people's prejudices to win in Nov. They are raising every issue that inspires hate and bias from people.

Anti-gays
Anti-Muslims
Anti-Mexicans
Anti-black

It disturbs me. I feel threatened by it personally as a minority. And I think it's taking America backwards. So when anyone advocates what that backwater party or "grass roots movement" started by Republican 501's say - I will stand against it.

 

As long as I don't have to dial 1 for Spanish, no biggie.

 

Then there's no reason for anyone to take you seriously if you have no concern for the rules in place. In fact it makes one think you hate illegal immigration for the sake of hating it rather than a genuine interest in improving this country.

I'll say it again. THE RULES SUCK. So I have no interest in wasting billions of dollars on enforcing a set of rules that are still based on the writings of a 1920s author that advocated eugenics as a national policy. Our immigration policy is built on a set of quotas that were developed in the 1920s with quota numbers that dont reflect current immigration numbers and arbitrarily divide quotas among the 2 hemispheres. So until you bother defending our **** show of immigration laws, then why should anyone even give you a breath of air to respond to your angry crusade to drive illegals from this country.

You speak of enforcing the rules but when you refuse to even bother to defend the rules why should anyone want to devote billions to enforcing them.

 

well said. I personally believe that there is some credence to the argument that border protection is necessary insofar as it regulates the inflow of immigrants in this country. I believe Obama's essentially pushed for this as well.

The thing I find odd is the lack of feasibility with this entire discussion. What is the tea party's real platform on this issue? are they suggesting a total deportation of all illegal immigrants?

 

I completely agree that the immigration laws suck. It is absurd that there are millions around the world forced to go through a long and arduous process to maybe get to immigrate to this country, when we have millions here illegally from this hemisphere and even a few from Europe (that last bit was for New Yorker). I'm totally for a guest worker program, heavy fines for employers knowingly hiring illegals who don't participate, and a serious attempt to get a handle on the problem of the inequity of our immigration laws. I'm against tinkering with the 14th amendment. Yes, it is being abused deliberately by some, but to change it now would simply be this nation falling for political demagoguery designed to win elections. As far as I'm concerned, that's the worst possible reason to change the US constitution, which actually has very few amendments, when one looks at how long it has been in effect. Don't believe me? Look at how many amendments the constitution of the State of Texas has. Just google it. The number is in the hundreds. Our state constitution is a running joke.


I'll add a personal anecdote. Last week I was stopped at a light, around noon, waiting to cross 6th street down by Katz's Deli, sitting in my Honda van minding my own business, simply waiting on the light. I feel a bump, look back, and a new Chevy SUV has backed into me getting out of a parking space on Rio Grande, the small street between 5th and 6th. I sigh, pull over a bit, and get out of the car. The SUV sees I've stopped and have got out, seems to hesitate, and then pulls up behind me. The driver doesn't get out, but rolls down the passenger side window. I walk over, lean in, and ask for his insurance and drivers license. He seems nervous, reaches into the glovebox, and hands me a sheet of paper, saying it was his insurance. I looked at it and it was not the standard insurance form you almost always see in Texas. I ask him what it is and he says its the insurance for the car. I ask for his drivers license three or four times and he finally says he doesn't have one. I'm surprised and said, "You've got to be kidding!" A good friend was with me and I asked him what he thought I should do. He said that the bar by where I'd pulled over might be able to make a copy. I asked him to walk in and see if they would and he was able to do it. The guy asks for the "insurance" paper back and I tell him he'll get it back after I get a copy of it. I write down the license number of the SUV, and stand there trying to make up my mind. The guy is pretty well dressed, but is clearly here illegally. Do I wait for a cop to show up? Frankly, I'm already surprised one hasn't already, because they patrol that area a lot. The odds of any damage being paid for by this guy and his "insurance" are slim to none.

I decided to let him leave. It pissed me off, but I let him leave.

 

I am all for immigration reform, better border control, guest worker programs, and sensible solutions to illegal immigrations - solutions that actually make the country better.

But it's the dehumanizing of people that irks me. People supporting laws that turn us into a police state by having anyone be questions by a cop about their citizenship is just moronic for multiple reasons. Not only that, u.s. citizens have been deported!

Why anyone would support failed policies over practical solutions to problems is just confusing to me.