If you were Chicago, would you want O'Neal or Cato?

The thing is I haven't heard anything about Rudy being interested in Fizer. I've heard he was really trying to move up and get Swift or Miles but nothing about him wanting to move up to get Fizer.

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You ain't gotta like me, you just mad cause I tell it how it is, and you tell it how it might be.

 

New Jack,

What do you expect Rudy to do? Come out and tell the whole world that he likes Fizer? This is different now than dealing Cato on draft day since the Rockets now have a 7 footer (Collier) that they really like. Also, last summer, you heard nothing about Francis to the Rockets, aside from a couple of lines in SI that the Rockets talked to Francis's agent, but then all of a sudden one evening BOOM! I hope the same thing happens here.

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Rudy does a good job of covering up what he doesnt want you to hear. Thats why so many big time deals have been done by the Rockets organization the past few years (Drexler, Barkley, Pippe, Francis, etc). The Rockets organization is very smart, cunning, and classy. They know if the public gets wind of a trade idea (read Olajuwon to the Grizzlies) all hell can break lose. We'll see what happens. I personally agree with MManal that the deal makes sense in many many ways.

Of course, I wouls also like to see us package Walt, KT, and Drew, maybe some trade exception to Seattle for Rashard Lewis in a sign and trade, but that is an even slimmer shot. Imagine if we could get both deals done though. WOW!

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I don't think Chicago does anything until the FA derby plays out. The last thing they want to do is give up cap space with O'neal or Cato while they could still potentially sign 2 or more very good FAs.
I agree after the FA signings that they look at both of the deals and God I hope they take Cato. Neither O'Neal or Cato have proven anything in the NBA, they are both potentially good players but I think Fizer is a much better player than either one of those 2, so I would Imagine we may need to throw in a draft pick, especially if Chicago can't get the FAs that they want.

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imo, and it is only mine, if chicago and
the rockets were going to do a trade, wouldn't it have been done at the NBA Draft
and not after the fact. I mean the only thing we heard up until the draft was that the rockects were trying to move up to get a big man. They couldn't do it or didn't want to do it then, so in my estimation they are not going to get it done now! Keep it real...

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TheFreak, O'Neal has three yrs left, Cato has 6 yrs, but I think if the Bulls are making this deal, they are thinking success not failure. If they make the move for Cato, obviously they would think he can be their center long term. Before the draft, Jerry Krause was quoted as saying something along the lines of "If we wanted O'Neal, we could have signed him last summer." Which is very true, the Bulls could have had O'Neal but were not very interested.

I agree that Fizer is a better player than either Cato or O'Neal. Problem is, Fizer is just not going to be able to play the SF position which is why I think he's trade bait.

Also, 4chuckie, if the Rockets take on the salary of Hersey Hawkins as was suggested, the Bulls would still have the cap room even with Cato on board to sign Tracy McGrady and one other key FA.

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Kdog, I think the reason for that is b/c Jerry Krause had visions of getting Darius Miles in the draft. That did not happen so he just picked up excellent trade bait in Marcus Fizer. Also, at the time, the Rockets did not have another capable young 7 footer on the roster, they do now.

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Good Point Mmanal. In fact Hawkins and Fizer’s (1st round picks count against your cap) salaries would add up to more than Cato’s so that the Rocket’s would have to throw in part of there exception. And the bulls would have more cap spaace... possibly enough to sign to players to the Max. Another reason to deal with the Rockets.

On another note Oneal said in the paper today that he still definitely wants to be traded doesn’t consider himself a true center. His real position is PF but with Rasheed in Portland he knows he won’t be getting much playing time at PF again.”

Sounds like he won’t be a good fit for the Bull’s so maybe the Rocket’s are next in line for a deal with Fizer. I have to tell you though (against the general consensus) I don’t know that I want to get rid of Cato so quickly. There are not many Center’s with Cato’s athleticism in this league. If he showed any consistency last year I wouldn’t even consider the trade. But I do like Fizer though and he is probably one of the few rookies I would Trade Cato for.

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[This message has been edited by Old Man Rock (edited July 05, 2000).]

 

Old Man Rock-First round picks count against the cap, but not in trades. The exception would be needed due to complications with BYC (Cato can only get 2.66 in return for a trade, so we'd need to throw in 1.5 million to get Hawkins, ironically, we'd then get 1.2 million back in exceptions, that has another year we can use.) But, Fizer's salary will be 1.7, and Hawkins is 4.2, which would mean the Bulls actually save 500K, and get their starting center in the deal.


It also said in that article, that he says he could play center ESPECIALLY in the Eastern Conference.
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The more lefties on your team, the better.
Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong?
Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.

[This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited July 05, 2000).]

 

NIKEstrad,

It seems that the confusion is based on the fact that it is the rights to an UNSIGNED first round pick that would getting traded.

The Francis deal of last summer is illustrative of that and how the Rockets generated a trade exception. Francis was refusing to sign with the Griz and his rights were traded to Houston.

Mango

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Here is the exact quote that is being alluded to from Jermaine O'Neal.

"I'm not a center. I can play center, especially in the Eastern Conference, but I don't want to be played as the center totally. I want to play the "four" (power forward), and Rasheed (Wallace) is doing such a great job there, it's tough for anybody else."

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MManal,

So what deals would you do for Chicago?
Remember, you have to act in Chicago's best interest and make a deal that the other teams can agree to.

Mango

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Mango,

If I were Chicago, and this is my unbiased opinion, I would make the deal with Houston of Kelvin Cato, 2001 pick for Marcus Fizer and Hersey Hawkins if it is even being discussed. I would take this over the Jermaine O'Neal offer from Portland. I am of the opinion that Jermaine O'Neal is far too thin to play the center position and that his best position is PF. Cato, on the other hand, can give the Bulls the starting center they need and they acquire a pick in the 9-14 range in the 2001 draft (one of the deepest in recent memory). I think this deal fills the Bulls needs, gives them as good a package as they will likely get for Fizer with filling those needs (center) and still leaves them with the necessary cap room to pursue free agents. It just does not make sense to deal for a player that plays the same position as your top dog, Elton Brand.

The Rockets end, we have already discussed in plenty of detail.

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[This message has been edited by MManal (edited July 05, 2000).]

 

MManal,

From the Houston perspective, is Fizer worth more than Cato + a mid-round pick in a deep draft?

If Fizer would have come out in 2001 instead of 2000, when would he be taken?

Mango

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MManal: You've done a good job convincing me that the Bulls would make the deal, but I'm not so sure this is a good deal on the Rockets side. If Cato is still the same unmotivated SOB he was last season, by all means, pull the trigger. But if the recent reports of him working out hard this summer are true, is Marcus Fizer enough to trade him? I watched Marcus Fizer about 5 times last year. He absolutely destroyed Chris Mihm and the Texas frontline, but that doesn't count IMO, as it's Chris Mihm. I agree with you that he runs the court well, handles the ball well, and has a nice shooting touch.

My main concerns are that:

[*]I don't know if he has nearly enough explosion to be dominant in the pros. You have brought up that he is 6'9, but he has to be able to finish around the rim against the shotblockers of the West (especially if we trade Cato, we won't have a decent center and the opposition will focus strictly on Fizer).
[*]He is not a particularly good rebounder. He averaged around 7 per last season, and I see that as below average in the college ranks.

Barring a huge free agent acquisition, we will most probably be in the lottery next summer (or somewhere at #14-#15). If the draft next year is as deep as you and others have insisted it is [in other threads], we better be sure Fizer is the real deal before we trade away our pick.

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If we make such a deal, netting us Hawkins, I think we should find a new home for the man, if possible. We shouldn't pay $4.5 million for a player that we waive. Maybe someone out there will take him on, knowing he's in his last year and can free up cap space. I think Cat's coming back, but let's not give him incentive to leave, hmn?
If we have a viable alternative for Cato, great, do the trade. Fizer runs the floor well and is downright nasty, can play D. I have to stop now because I'm sleepy and I'm also imagining getting Croshere as our starting 3 and I'm probably way afield from what will happen for the team this offseason. Ah, to sleep. Perchance to dream.

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Mango,

Where Fizer would go next draft is a difficult question b/c it would depend on how he performed his senior season in college. If he had another dominant season, then his stock would be sky high. In that case, even though the draft is extremely deep, a stud like Fizer would still go high no matter which year esp considering he would have finished his senior season in this hypothetical scenario. Also, the fact that its deep means that there isnt a huge drop off of talent after the first 7 picks so it could also depend on what team needs a player like Fizer. The top center prospects, Loren Woods, Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry would definitely go before Fizer imho since centers are so rare and they are stud big men. Players like Gerald Wallace and Eddie Griffin would depend on how they develop and would play next yr and also a team philosophy of how they view experience and such.

In the end, though, I think its worth it for the Rockets b/c in the 9-14 range, I dont think they will find a PF of the caliber of Marcus Fizer even though its a deep draft since Fizer is a major stud. They could find a really good wing player like Shane Battier, Vincent Yarbrough or even Terence Morris but could get that with the Milwaukee pick.

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Cato not be going to Chicago any time soon.

Besides who says Chicago is not planning to use Fizer on the Roster rather than trade bait?

If he is as great as every one thinks than why would Floyd want to dump one his own recruits??????

Besides Fizer is young & would fit well with the Chicago core even with the addition of
T-MC


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MManal,

If you could change the pick to the Orlando pick or make it a second round pick in 2001, it would be more appealing. If the Rockets generate cap space in 2001 with Dream's retirement and Hawk's contract expiration, who would they spend it on if Fizer is already aboard?

Until the deal is tilted back a bit toward the Rocket's end, have to side with thacabbage.

Mango

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