Thibodeau still says Mcgrady is a possibility, but shooting is first priority

He's done. He would have saved himself a lot of embarrassment if he had just quit for medical reasons, at the latest after last season.

 

DD, you've been around enough to know that if a player with the talent of tmac acted like a diva he'd still get signed. You and many here know that damn well. A team would give the devil himself a contract if he played like Tmac of old. The reason he can't get a contract now is mainly because of his physical issues, not his mouth. Everyone and their mother gets overpaid in the NBA, especially stars. Without his health issues he'd be a 30 yr old scoring machine. You're honestly going to tell me a diva attitude would cancel that talent out in the NBA? No way, it is a combination of his attitude and health, but mainly it's health related.

Grover and the physical therapist involved in tmac's rehab both talked about his condition and how he had muscle imbalances from top to bottom. I know people her hate on Grover and anything Grover related because of the failed rehab and the way he talked tmac up, but the man knows what he's doing and he knows training/rehab, his resume speaks for itself. The problem was guaranteeing tmac's return, which for a rockets fan seems to equal Grover is a quack, but to the rehab and fitness industry it's just one blemish in line of successes.

The Waco doc who worked on tmac also mentioned his imbalances that were evident as soon as he walked in. Did he say "scoliosis" specifically? I dont think so, but that's basically what it causes, imbalances.

Doc rivers said he noticed it during practice with Orlando....hes not a doctor, but i doubt he'd make up a story about seeing a curve in tmac's spine.

You do realize tmac didnt have to try very hard to score on players, right? We think he was busting his ass to score because he produced points from it. It's easy to say he was giving it his all when he finished with 45 pts...but look at the tape. How much effort does it take for a 6'8 guy with long arms and a high vertical to get his shot off? Not much. Sure he had his moments were he'd flash his athleticism and ride them to the rim, but he also had his moments defensively as seen by the videos posted in this thread... but offensively, he can put up a jumper giving just 60-70% effort, it's not hard for him. Being a decent shooter he'll make a good number of them. On defense? Give 60-70% then and you'll get burned most of the time. He can give the same effort on each end and get different results.

Tmac has never been a quick guy. His advantage is his length and ability to dribble at that length.. If he drives by someone, it's not because he's fast, but because he's got decent speed + length, so thats the equivalent of a "quick first step" for him. On defense a bigger advantage is quickness, not leg length, as you have to react to catch up after the player makes the move, rather than you making the first move, as in offense. His advantage would be his overall height and arm length, so i'm not surprised that his defensive highlights are steals and blocks rather than staying in front of his man.

 

If you haven't already, this is an interesting read:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/2m5h6a

 

"Here's something that I'm sure was never made public and probably didn't show up in Tracy's physicals conducted by the league. Al & Erik Helland,current Bulls strength & conditioning coach, would manipulate all parts of the body to gauge a player's flexibility. Through this testing, Al Vermeil predicted that Tracy would have back problems. Al got that one right. Through genetic fate, Tracy McGrady was destined to have problems with his back throughout his career."

I had never read that before......but thats pretty much what surprises me the most...there were legit professionals out there then, and now, who could see it coming. Why teams ignored it i have no idea. I guess everyone wanted to believe they could extend his borrowed time. Teams though it wouldnt end with them and they'd benefit from having him, grover figured it would be a great feat to be the one who brought tmac back....selfish reasons i guess...

What a lot of fans dont realize is that there's a disconnect between some of these high profile docs and alternative medicine....when one thinks of the "witch doctor" they assume it's something ridiculous like rubbing special concoctions on the affected area, but sometimes it can be something like joint manipulation or dissolving trigger points, which is all scientific. Some docs only want to solve problems they can see on fancy machines, and even then, usually want to solve them with medicine or surgery. That's why the guys in phoenix have a good training staff...they have people who know about both sides and combine them rather than ignoring the other.

For example, if a doc xrayed tmac's back he may conclude the curve isnt significant enough to cause problems, but that's just an observation...meanwhile a trainer, like the bulls' trainer, can actually put his back into action by forcing it to interact with the body as whole through that stretch test and from there conclude that although slight, the curve won't allow a certain muscle to function properly, and therefore will affect his back. This could be the difference between being told everything will be ok or being told you may have problems later.

Basically this could be why tmac's condition was downplayed by teams...if you look enough you'll eventually find a doctor who tells you something closer to what you want to hear.

 

I'm not a TOF, so i dont have a problem saying it openly. I say what i see and i never saw someone busting his ass consistently on either end of the floor. Look at his offensive highlight clips and you see a lot of average speed moves that end in average speed jumpshots/pull ups or layups and then there's flashy dunks/drives sprinkled in between. A lot of his pull up jumpers look similar to his shoot arounds before games. The advantage comes when he can make get the spacing from one crossover that another player may get from crossover and another dribble. Or from taking a big step and getting the separation another player gets from a dribble and a step.

It's similar to what Usain bolt does to his opponents. Tyson Gay is nearly having a seizure from swinging his limbs so violently during races, while Bolt never has to go that far...and it's all due to his length. Im not saying Bolt is half a$$ing it or that tmac never gave any effort, but that they usually dont have to go all out due to their edge over opponents and/or that even when injured or at a disadvantage, they can still compete because of that limb length edge they had to begin with. In tmac's case it was just more beneficial as an offensive player than defending guards.

 

I'll start off by saying that I am flattered at your attempt at a compliment. I guess its true what they say, if a monkey can show appreciation, anyone can..

Anyway.. as to your second point about Mcgrady's defense.. When he was healthy he actually was one hell of a defender, now whether you choose to accept that is your own choice. In the Nba you pretty much have players who are gifted incredibly at offense and players who are incredibly great at defense. I believe that anyone can be a pretty good defender if they put work at it. A perfect example of that is Shane Battier. He isn't asked to do much offensively because thats not his strong suit. His specialty is defense. That is why he has gotten recognized as the "Kobe stopper" and such. He no doubt puts in a ton of effort on defense because he knows he's pretty much set in his offensive game (knock down 3 point shooter). He has never been a playmaker and never will be.

Then you have a player like Kevin Martin who is incredibly gifted on offense. His ability to draw the foul and finish is beyond me.. He also is a excellent shooter who can drop 40 on any given night. But, as everyone will agree, his defense is subpar to say the least. Now the question to that is, why? Well, you have to look at his work ethic. Maybe he enjoys offense more than defense? Maybe he thinks his offensive game will make up for what he lacks in defense? Whatever the case may be, who knows..

Now with Tracy, he was just an incredibly gifted player all around. The best way to put it is that the game just came to him naturally. It looked effortless to him. That's why he made it look so easy. Now, everyone knows that its not that easy, he just made it look that way. Try crossing the opposing defender, raising up, and nailing a 20 footer at crunch time. Not so easy. Try breaking down the offense, driving by the defender and finding the open Battier for three. Not so easy. Try scoring 40 pts, grabbing 10 rbds, and dishing out 5 asts in a playoff game. Not so easy.

My point is that it is damn near impossible to go all out on offense and defense the whole game. It is true that some legendary players have been able to do that (Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq) but those players are far and few between.

In the Nba you have your defensive specialists and your offensive firepowers. I'll agree that Mcgrady could have put more effort at defense at times, but couldn't that be said about any Nba player???

 

I think the reason he switched to jumpers is in part because of the difficulty he started to have with his back/shoulder/knee. Usually you'd say he shot more because of natural progression like Kobe and MJ did, and maybe that had something to do with it, but i think he found it harder to drive and be athletic and realized he could shoot more jumpers, still put up points, and not feel strain from it.

the reason i think that is because i can relate to that as well...as a teen i drove tons more, although i always had a good jumper. As my back started screwing up and everything else along with it, i felt less fluid going to the hoop, less bounce to my step, and i started shooting more and more..to the point that a few years later i hardly drove to the rim anymore. Heck, even when i had an open lane i shot out of habit. Now that my aligment is better i have the itch to drive again and i know i can do it.

And it's pretty much an unconscious effort...i wasnt doing it on purpose, it's just what felt right or better and i was still scoring, so it made sense...so that's my take on tmac, but i didnt have the pressure of being a pro athlete trying to win a ring...otherwise i'd still be trying to play now instead of having taken off the last several months to rehab. Tmac on the other hand is screwed either way because he's wasted his joints already and even if he heals the damage he can't fix his spine and therefore will put stress on them once again.

 

So... you disregard all the blood, sweat, and tears (literally) he exerted on offense because he wasn't an outstanding defender? Nobody is crucifying Kevin Martin because his defense isn't great. People love Martin because he is a lethal threat offensively.

Seems to me there has to be some sort of tradeoff.. Morey didn't acquire Martin for his wonderful defense.

 

Could I have some empirical evidence? LOL

 

I said Mcgrady was one hell of a defender. That should be self explanatory. What I meant to say after that was, just because you don't think he is an outstanding defender doesn't get rid of the fact that he was a great offensive player.

I seriously don't know which Mcgrady you were watching. Most of the time, if not all the time when he was healthy he gave consistent efforts on both ends. He might have not been the defensive player of the year every year, but he was no slouch. The Rockets obviously didn't think he was when they signed him to that massive contract after he was traded here.

But all in all I don't think Mcgrady gives a damn on what you or I think of him. He is laughing his way to the bank.

 

Calling McGrady a "hell of a defender" is just silly. He could defend well when he tried, but that was so rare that the best description of McGrady's defense was somewhere between below average and well below average. The very selective times he exerted himself on D didn't make up for his normal poor effort.

And your highlight clips don't mean zip because I can find 10x more of Amare making plays on defense, yet nobody sane will call him a "hell of a defender".

 

Wow, incredible. I guess you're right, Mcgrady was trash at defense for letting Luke Walton dunk on him.. So what about these other defensive mishaps??

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Jordan gets dunked on by John Starks. Yes, John Starks dunked on Jordan. WTF is wrong with Jordan???

Oh and here's one of my favorites.. Iverson crossing Jordan plus he sinks the jumper!

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You see where I'm going with this?