False. False. Wow, please, if you do not believe in the ahadith or don't consider yourself sunni, don't comment on their behalf. Everything about the first quote is completely false. There is no such thing as going into the philosophy of things in Islam. There are hundreds of verses and ahadith that clearly say how the Quran came into existence, there is no need to go into its "philosophy." The second quote is true to an extent except we don't HAVE to basically subscribe to one of the school's of thought. Although it is helpful to do so for a lot of people but no where does it say that you absolutely must follow one of them. The Prophet PBUH said that there will be 73 sects in Islam by the end, and only one will be saved from hell.
Ok. Let's make a bet then? Whoever is right owns the other person's sig for a whole month. Just so I understand you, you're telling me that as a Sunni, you can disagree with all the madhaheb and come to your own conclusion? and that there were never any large-scale philosophical debates regarding the nature of the Quran? Also, honestly, just for your own personal safety/knowledge, it doesn't say 73 sects. It just says groups or parts. It does not specify whether this means sunni, shiite, sufi, etc or if it means hanafi, maliki, hanbali, etc. In fact, the text is as follows: One variation: Second variation: If we had any hope or chance or dream of figuring out what that 73 means, surely we would be able to list the 71 Jewish groups and the 72 Christian groups by now, wouldn't we? But of course. You HAVE to take it literally. You can't accept it as "every one of Allah's religions will create more social divisions than the one preceding it" because there's not enough mystique in it, right? I wonder how on earth you rationalize that, at the very moment he said it, there were 71 Jewish groups and 72 Christian groups and he predicted that there would be 73.... which is really cool and miraculous ONLY IF the numbers 71 and/or 72 never change. So we must assume that these divisions stop at absolute points beyond which there can't be divisions anymore, right? Then how do you rationalize that these Hadiths are BOTH SAHIH FROM THE TOP SCHOLARS, yet the numbers change in the variations. In the first variation, the Jews have split into 71 groups, but in the second one they are split into 72 groups. What happened? You see, even assuming you believe in "3elm el '3aib", i.e. "The Prophet PBUH knows the unseen and unknown", the only rational explanation is that the Jews suddenly created another group and the Prophet PBUH was aware of it. But if that's the case, what's the significance of the number? It's going to grow forever, so the statement really doesnt have any value. It's like me saying "Nokia made 10 phones, Motorolla made 11 phones, and Iphone will go on to make 12 phones". I'm not predicting the future. I'm just trying to explain that telephone companies constantly create new devices, as history has shown. anyways
I never said disagree with them. All I did was disagree with you when you said that every sunni basically must follow one of the schools of thought. We don't have to follow one of them, but we do hold them as prominent scholars of Islam. A lot of people do choose to follow one of the schools which makes things easier for them. I guess it's ok to do that but if you follow one madhab, you can't reject the other one. People choose to follow a madhab because they themselves can't come up with their own conclusions, they don't have enough knowledge to. We can also just follow our local Imam/Shaykh and rely on their knowledge as long as they don't go outside the bounds of Islam. This helps keep the local community knit together in places where the Muslim population is low. There may have been large-scale philosophical debates. I don't doubt that. All I said was that it's not part of Ahl al Sunna wal Jam'ah to follow one of these philosophers (Ash'ari, Matrudi) and in fact, we're not SUPPOSED to follow them. Philosophical interpretations of Quran/Islam are considered haraam. Hence, it's not a part of the Sunni sect, either. I see Jalal Al Din Rumi in your sig and I can tell where your support for philosophical interpretations comes from and I assume you're a modern day Sufi. "Wahb ibn Baqiyyah told us from Khaalid from Muhammad ibn ‘Amr from Abu Salamah from Abu Hurayrah who said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Jews were divided into seventy-one or seventy-two sects, and the Christians were divided into seventy-one or seventy-two sects, and my Ummah will be divided into seventy-three sects.” This was narrated by Abu Dawood in his Sunan, Kitaab al-Sunnah, Baab Sharh al-Sunnah." Maybe you're right, the number isn't significant but that doesn't change the fact that "one will be in Paradise" (al-Jam'ah) and the rest (72? maybe more? maybe less?) will be in the Fire. Btw, do you know how many sects have already branched out of Islam? A lot.
i know, right. trustme, bro, relax. look at the main point of this thread instead of debating on a collateral matter.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_qxzZY4JycY&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_qxzZY4JycY&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object> I don't know if my country is going to war with Iran, but I'm just tired of what Israel is doing to my people. I'm given so much in this country, but I would give everything and more for something to change in Palestine. What they're doing to my people kills me inside.
Whatever. Rockets are being fired at Israel as we speak. http://www.arabtimesonline.com/News...ckets-hit-Israel,-Jordan-resorts/Default.aspx And there were plenty of innocent Israeli civilians who got killed by rockets and by suicide bombers. You are the one that is brainwashed if you think this is a one-sided affair. Both sides are at fault here, to which extent either one of them is debatable, but it is definitely not a one-sided thing.
nope, I'm probably lighter than you. Why are you scared to fight man? I promise I won't hit you while your down. I don't fight dirty. It's good to get into a friendly fight every once in a while. If you want to put gloves on, that's good too.
1) Every single reputable shaikh will tell you that as a Sunni, you have to choose your answer from within a school of thought. This is not even debatable. You CAN do whatever you want, you can even drink alcohol, have sex with animals, and rape women. You can still call yourself a Sunni. But ultimately, the Sunni "establishment" leaders view that your answers with regard to Fiqh MUST come from within ONE of the schools. A Sunni doesn't follow a Madhhab because he/she CANT decide something. It's because in the Sunni world, only a select group of people are ALLOWED to derive religious ruling and those are the "scholars". Unless your answer is clearly stated, they decide for you, directly or indirectly. 2) Those are not philosophers, those are the different "schools" of Aqidah. I can tell from your comments that you don't know much, if anything, about it. I suggest you read up on it or ask someone. I would love to explain it to you, but clearly I don't have any credibility with you. I'll get you started though. Search this: "Quran created or eternal?" FYI, I am not a Sufi, have never been one, and don't plan on ever being one. I'm not from any sect whatsoever. Before you even bother, I'm not a Quranist either. 3) It's not that I may be right. I am absolutely right. I am guessing you can't read Arabic. The numbers are different in different variations and different Hadiths. There is a mistake. It's funny you should say it doesn't matter much. When you're lined up against a wall in Saudi Arabia about to receive lashes, I promise it will matter if you get 0, 1 or 2 lashes. Especially when the judge tells you that the Prophet PBUH said so. 4) Yes I know. But again, the Hadith doesn't refer to sects. It refers to groups. In fact, the word used in the hadith resembles "nations" more than sects. Many people misinterpret it as "sect" in order to condemn other sects through the Hadith.
Quit embarrassing yourself. Be mature when you post or don't post at all. This is off topic but if I recall correctly, you were the one who predicted Yao would average 35+ minutes this season ... think before you post.
I still want to beat him up. I think I can justify beating up a racist guy who stereotypes like no one I've seen before. Keep hiding behind your keyboard ATW. When you want some, you know where to find me.
