I think we all know this guy can shoot, but the question is can he defend? Is he athletic enough to hang with Wallace and Webber and Cliff Robinson? Can he bang with Malone and Duncan? If the answer to these questions is no(and I think if we're all honest it is) then Collier is a backup, nothing more. Kenny Thomas is not a future all star , I don't care how many years you've played ball. There has been only 1 great short power forward in this league and he just retired, bulking up won't make Thomas a Barkley. We had two glaring needs coming into this draft, 3(Williams is not the long term answer) and 4(Neither is Thomas), and with a better pick than we've had in forever we addressed neither. That makes this draft an utter failure! ------------------ "And On The 8th day god Created Basketball, And on the 9th He Created The Dream To Play It"
panamamyers - Listen up shorty to what I have to say. Kenny will never be an all star, well actualyl I cant say that because who knows what will happen. But I dont think he will. Kenny is small player for his position. He does nice stuff sometimes but alot of ppl make him sound great. I rather have Othella than Kenny. Kenny doesnt always play well, he might play good for 3 games and go queit for 5 weeks. He is a good backup but he cant be a starter if this team wants to contend for a championship. Like I said, dont think Rudy T loves Kenny. Kenny has pretty good trade value and if houston does a deal, he will be in it most likely. ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB
kenny thomas is the future backup.........LOL......yeha how about moochie norris.....where does he fit into your scheme of things......francis3 ------------------
letz get some knowledge of the game first here people before we start playing arm chair quarterback. Kenny Thomas hardly got a chance to play the first half of the season, second half came around so did his pt., and his skills started to show. I doubt seriously he is going anywhere, Walt Williams old, no defense playing self should go , along with the no defense playing Bullard, they are the guys holding us back peace ------------------
Othella is a hard worker and all, but I don't think you quite understand the extent of KT's game. You will find out soon enough, it will be a pleasant surprise to say the least. Before Barkley there were no PF's of that height to be great players? so what's your point? is there a quota of one per 30 years or something? I don't look at numbers and ratios, I keep that on the math classes...I look at how good the guy plays ball. I'm not saying KT is Barkely.I'm just saying he's damn good. There's no point in arguing about it. Everyone will see soon enough...and Donnell Harvey will be an all star in 5 years too for what it's worth...and we sure passed him up. thanks ------------------
Kenny is not going to take us anywhere. We need a power forward that can play every night. We need a power forward that doesnt have a huge ass. We need a TOUGH power forward. KENNY IS NOT THE FUTURE STARTING POWER FORWARD FOR THE ROCKETS. He wont take the rockets anywhere. ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB
I know you guys like KT, but be realistic. Kenny Thomas is not the type of player who is a starting PF for a championship team. For right now for us, yes he is. And he can be a good player. But not a great player- a good role player. And for us to make that leap forward into that upper eschelon of teams, we have to get another PF. I personally would support starting Collier next year at PF over Thomas. A 6'7 PF won't get it done against the likes of Duncan and Webber. ------------------ Member of the pro-Collier/Langhi movement. IN RUDY WE TRUST!!
TheFreak: I understand what you are saying. Maybe Collier does fit our system. I'll give you that. Maybe you're right...rather than worrying about other teams, let's make them worry about us. I'll give you that. Shoot, maybe Collier will end up being a match from Heaven for us. The reason I am so frustrated with this selection is that we got a guy who we could have gotten in the second round. It's about getting value for the #9, and quite frankly we got robbed of a lottery pick. If you want tall shooters so badly, why not just sign Pete Chilcutt? Why waste a lottery pick on him (and no you all, don't get started with all that "but he can run the floor...he's not Matt Bullard, BS. I've seen Collier play") when you could get him at #38? As for Langhi, I could care less about that pick, he probably won't even make the final 12-man roster. As for the argument that "we're stalk piling multiple picks for next year's deep draft." Can I ask you where that will get us? Orlando offered two lottery picks as well as a high potential player (Maggette) and still couldn't crack the Top-3. Barring injury, Milwaukee will be picking no earlier than #15. [Cassell and Allen should be solid, as usual. Thomas will emerge next season, with Big Dog traded for frontcourt help. Jason Caffey is also a decent frontcourt presence...hell, he'd be starting on the Rockets.] The Rockets will probably be somewhere in the #10-#15 range. The knock on this year's draft was that there were no sure-fire franchise players. If next year's prospects are so great, why would a Top-3 team next year trade their pick for two weak picks, when a Top-3 team this year didn't even trade their pick for two better picks, in a draft with no great player? My basic point is that you can argue all day about how Collier fits our needs, but the bottom line is that we did not receive market value for our #9. ------------------ "I wanna eat his children." [This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited June 30, 2000).]
Cabbage- yes we could have traded further down possibly and gotten more for our 9th pick. But the further you go, the more you run the risk that maybe Collier will be taken by a team in front of you. After all, a team like the Jazz at 23 could really use a center. And with Malone, of course they couldn't use a PF like Moiso or Etan Thomas that would have been available at pick 9. My point is that this was the only sure way for the Rockets to land Collier, and if he is what Rudy thinks, then it was worth it. Plus even if we can't make a trade next year, that 15-20 pick in next year's DEEP draft will be about equal to the 9th pick in this draft. And by the way, I've seen Collier play a couple of times too. He does not resemble Bullard at all. ------------------ Member of the pro-Collier/Langhi movement. IN RUDY WE TRUST!!
Would you guys be happier if we had swapped the 9th and 15th picks with Milwaukee first, then drafted Collier ourselves at #15? ------------------ I will demonstrate my clutchness this November.
MATT BULLARD ....is nothing like Collier or Langhi, so stop the comparisons RIGHT NOW! Kenny THomas for the last time, was a rookie last year that hardly got any playing time, Jason Caffey, LOL, I hope we never get that desperate to start a poor man's Otis THorpe on our team. Do the math here, we are going young and athletic, once again, Steve FRancis is our "new Hakeem", he is our Frandchise now, so we build around him. Cuttino and Shandon are starters all three are fast, and can play good solid defense,and can score......THEY ARE SCORERS. Kelvin Cato is athletic and can run, he needs, and from what I hear has been working on his offense,... Now we throw in COllier, he is young, athletic , and can score.... By the way, I hope Langhi, MY GOD we drafted him over DOnnell Harvey or a Chris POrter, I hope he cracks the 12 man roster, I would love so desperately for the Rockets to ship Bullard and Walt away, they are just shooters, and THAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kenny Thomas, well just say "I told you so", its not too late.....for yall to join his band wagon now, I won't hold it against you. BUT!!!!!!!Boy oh Boy, if you don't , I will never let you hear the end of it.. LAST CHANCE!!!!!!!!! letz stop the violence, and the Kenny THomas bashing.... AND go after Rashard Lewis ------------------
Donnell Harvey was gone WAY before Langhi. ------------------ Member of the pro-Collier/Langhi movement. IN RUDY WE TRUST!!
cabby -- what can I say, you seem to be basing a lot of your argument on opinion. For instance, how do you know we could've had Collier in the 2nd round? Obviously the Rocket brass thinks more of him than you do. You have to admit they've probably seen a lot more of him than you have, and envisioned him fitting into their system. The Pete Chilcutt comparison just isn't fair, in my opinion. Hopefully you were joking a little there. Out of all the guys on the board, they thought Collier was the best fit. So they obviously have a different opinion than you on whether or not they got good value for their #9. If next year's draft is stronger, like everyone seems to be saying, there's likely to be something there in the 15-18 range that is just as good as Moiso, Przybilla, or Thomas. If that's the case, the Bucks just gave us Jason Collier for free. Still look like a terrible deal? On to the pick thing. Again, you're using an opinion/rumor to defend your position. How do I know Orlando and so-and-so had such-and-such deal on the table? I don't think that's something that can be confirmed. I'm not saying we'll be able to trade up next year. All I'm saying is we're going to have some flexibility that comes from extra picks and cap room. That can never be a bad thing. I just don't feel we lost anything with this trade like you seem to think. There was simply nothing there that the Rockets wanted. They didn't want to settle for what was left. I can't emphasize that enough. Instead, they moved down to get someone else, grabbed another pick, and we'll try it again next year. ------------------ Tell me I sold out, go ahead
tcab-Langhi WILL make the team, why would we trade Najera and a future pick if he won't? Why would they trade? Well, basically it could come down to this-The difference between Moiso (a later pick) and Swift is fairly large. The difference between Gerald Wallace and Terrence Morris, isn't. Even if we don't trade up to top 5, we still could get into the top 10, and easily get T. Morris, who I'd take over any of the SFs in this draft (including Dermarr) and still have another pick to get a high potential big man (and there are TONS....one guy to follow, even though he's an SF right now is Ajou Deng, haven't watched much of him, but he's somewhere between 6'10'' and 7'0'', has a jump shot, crazy handles like crossovers, and sick athleticism. Not to mention, he blocked 1.2 shots a game last year....in a measly 14.4 minutes. Also check for Brian Cook, another potential Stromile Swift, 6'11'' and he's actually a center. See the How Good are the Bucks Now? Thread in the Draft 2000 board for a list of 20 prospects I put up there, it's 3rd from the bottom right now. There's even more than that. Yes not all will come out, but more people will rise, and it'll be a sickly deep draft. I also did some of the math, and we also save $384,500 in free agency with Collier (#15) over Pryzbilla (#9) in the Coon FAQ. And in the Monter FAQ, we saved around $460,000. Just some quick things of importance ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited June 30, 2000).]
If we wanted to save money, we could have saved a lot more money by trading our pick (Pryz) for Golden State's pick this year (Chris Porter) and their #1 next year. I would have preferred this, not only would we have saved salary but we would have a much greater chance to crack the top 5 next year. Or maybe we could have done the same thing by trading Pryz for NJ or Chi pick next year (they are both desperate for center right?) + early 2nd rounder (still get Langhi with a trade plus maybe O.O. from this year's draft so it isn't a total debacle this year). If we are talking money saving, there were much better routes. This trade just doesn't look good in value, or any other way I slice it. We got a player with better than expected value at #9 (everyone's #2 center) and traded it for a reach of a #15 + a likely late 1st rounder next year. Milwaukee will be good, teams like GS and NJ won't. If Milwaukee’s deal was the best out there we should have done no deal at all. If they were so desperate than we should have demanded TT for Pryz + Walt + Drew (not a bad package to Mil, this would serve much of our needs too by clearing out Drew/Walt and getting a player just as young as our draftees, 10x as athletic, and far more accomplished. The don't want to part with Thomas for something we think is fair, forget them.). There were a lot of things we could do, I think we blew it. Not only does the trade look bad in value, it doesn't look good in terms of addressing our greatest weaknesses. It is not like we got added much needed athleticism, strength and/or length on our front line. Neither did we add a pick next year likely to turn into lower-half lottery pick, unless you consider our own pick as such a candidate. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited June 30, 2000).]
I don't think GS had their pick on the table after finally getting off the hook from Orlando in the deal they sent away 3 picks. Chicago may not be as center starved as we think, if they traded away Mihm for Crawford. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
Who said Donnell Harvey and Langhi were there at the same time? I was simply saying we could have traded down and gotten Harvey instead of Collier. But that's all over with now. I'm not saying that KT is going to be in the hall of fame, but he will be a lot better than Harrington in a few years, so that argument is a non-issue. Why are we even discussing this? You can say all you want about him not being the answer and have a condescending tone as if to lead me to believe I am in a dream world. But that, my friends, will not work. The proof is in the pudding about basketball players. Everyone that doesn't think KT is goiing to be a very very good player is mistaken. I'm sure these are the same people that thought Larry Hughes wasn't going to be anything after his first year in Philly. Thanks, but no thanks...I know basketball talent, so don't even try it. ------------------
I like Harvey, but he wouldn't bring much to the team other than a little rebounding and athleticism. He's only 6'7" and has very limited offensive game. That being said, keep KT! Also, rememeber that Harvey did play in the SEC, just like Langhi, but didn't get any player of the year awards. This should tell you something. I'm actually starting to get a little excited that we may have found another 2nd round sleeper for the 2nd year in a row. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited June 30, 2000).]
I think that before posters say that the Rocks should have traded Pryz for this or that rather that to Milwaukee for Collier, they should visit the Rockets web-site and see how the trade actually transpired. The trade was set-up with Milwaukee before the Rockets even picked at 9. Rocks decided if Miller or Johnson weren't available at 9, the deal would be done. Milwaukee was on the phone with CD and said "Pick Pryz". Then at 15, Houston told Milwaukee to take Collier. Milwaukee could have told the Rocks to take anyone who was available at 9. Obviously, the Rockets did not think Mioso was worth the 9th pick. So instead of taking Moiso or anyone else left, they decided beforehand they would rather have another first round pick and Collier. If Pryz had not fallen to 9, it may well have been Moiso or Alexander or whomever that was traded for a 1st round pick plus Collier. ------------------
