Any Way You Shake It, This Was A Waste Of Time

I agree. I really want to know why didnt we just get MOISO? He is much better than collier and langhi. I think Rudy was drunk last night because this is weird. We waited just to get Collier. Collier isnt worth the wait , I think we could of done better.

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President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB

 

What about Michael Dickerson and Othella Harrington? If Rudy never drafted them, we wouldn't have Francis today.

I'm giving them a chance. Langhi was Player of the Year in the SEC, which had Swift and Miller. Collier is a better fit than Przy.

Clutch, can you find out if the Rockets will be participating in the rookie/free agent league that ESPN2 will be airing in July.

 

Almu, I see exactly the same thing you do. I was writing my rant obviously when you were writing your. Along with Moiso, I was far more interested in Etan Thomas than Collier as well, we should have only moved down so far as to get one of these two players.

It is not glamorous, but we need defense, defense, defense. We need a combination of length, quickness, and strength down low to help our team defense. We drafted offense, offense, offense. I really don't get it at all. I hope we are not done dealing, or it looks to be a bad draft.



[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited June 29, 2000).]

 

Lot's of people are saying Moiso is a better risk than Collier. That is not accurate. You should compare Moiso to Collier + ANOTHER FIRST ROUND PICK.

Collier is 7' and 260 pounds. He can play 4 or 5. When he screens for a guard, his man cannot sag into the middle, or he will hit the j. He can score inside and outside and rebounds respectably. CD said they were surprised by how well he runs the floor. He was projected mid 1st round by several analysts.

Langhi is 6' 11". He can play at 3 or 4. He shoots even better than Collier. He was player of the year in the SEC and was the only threat on his team.

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Almu, maybe you need to listen to some Houston radio to gain a little perspective. Listen to what the coaches/scouts for the Rockets have to say to get both sides.

Those who would've rather had Moiso or Thomas, please explain how you envision either Moiso and Cato playing on the floor together, or Thomas and Cato. Which one of those guys can run the pick -n- roll? Which one can hit the outside shot? Which of Moiso and Thomas, can play the 4 and the 5? How does the addition of Moiso or Thomas compliment what we already have in place? How does Thomas improve Francis' game? How does Moiso?

"We need big, athletic, front court players. Not more Matt Bullards! Who is gonna help us play the Lakers? Who is gonna help us play the Blazers? Who is gonna help us play the Spurs? WHO IS GONNA HELP US OUT ON THE FRONTLINE...PERIOD?!"

Please describe how Collier and Langhi are "more Matt Bullards". Is it because they're white? Was Bullard Player of the Year in his conference? "Who is going to help us play the Lakers and Blazers?" Um, how about Steve Francis? That's my guess. The idea is to make other teams ask that question about you, not the other way around. We want other teams to be asking "how are we going to guard these perimeter players and still be able to stay with all those shooters?"

"Houston rolled the dice and acquired Francis. They accelerated their rebuilding by 3 years with that move. Barring major trades(which salary cap wise makes it difficult)they have just added 1 and a half to 2 years back. It was an awful night for the Rockets."

Well, I didn't think it could get any dumber than what I've seen on this board regarding the draft, but this so-called "expert" has achieved that and much more. Tell me how taking Collier, along with another mid-1st round pick instead of Moiso, Thomas, or Przybilla sets us back 1-2 years. That's simply awful analysis. What would set us back is drafting someone "just to guard Shaq", or Wallace, Duncan, whoever. The Rockets are trying to make teams worry about them, not let other teams dictate what they do. Let's bring back Thomas Hamilton! He's about Shaq's size, so maybe he can shut him down!

Also, people talk about the need to "get more athletic". I thought the object was to get BETTER, not athletic. AC Green, Ron Harper, Glen Rice...yeah, those guys are super athletes. They're all 3 starting for the World Champions.

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Too-Rye-Aye!

 

Those guys are world champions because the only teams that slowed Oneal with a bunch of big athletic bodies and great team defense couldn't finish a 4th quarter.

I think it simply unrealistic to think we don't need to get stronger and more athletic front court players to help match up with the likes of Oneal, Garnett, Duncan, Wallace, etc. Yeah, other teams might not be able to match up well with Francis, but unless you can slow the other team go-to-guy it won't be enough.

Also, we don't know for sure that Thomas or Moiso wasn't a possibility for wheeling and dealing. Maybe we didn't have to work with Milwalkee, or could have forced Milwalkee to get another team involved (so they could move up 2 slots) and still got an extra future 1st rounder. Przb had quite a lot of value, I don't think we got good enough value--Collier and this likely 20ish pick next year.

You cannot strengthen a defense with more offense. We ignored our biggest need, more athleticism, stength and quickness in our big people. Why do you think the 1st and 2nd choices were taken, for "prototypes" of exactly these kinds of players? We ignored taking or dealing for poor mans versions of this type of player (Moiso, Thomas) for offensive minded players. Why do you think the guys we drafted were available when they were--the whole league is going more athletic??

[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited June 29, 2000).]

 

Again, why didn't we trade Najera to San Antonio for their 2 picks, then get Ernest Brown there, giving us our athletic big man, and then with the 2nd one, draft Pete Mickeal, our defense.

Now, let's think, what good defensive players are out there in free agency? The one name that sticks out to me is Foyle. I would not be surprised if we picked up him or Fortson, to add to our PF tandem.

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The more lefties on your team, the better.
Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong?
Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.

 

The pick is likely to be around 15, not the 20s. This is the Bucks we're talking about here. How are they going to jump 5+ spots in one season? They finished 6th in the East 2 years ago, and 8th last year. The only team I could see them passing in their own conference is maybe the Pistons. Then you have to think about the West as well. I don't see them making the improvement required to jump more than a couple of spots. I say the pick is 18th at the absolute worst.

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Too-Rye-Aye!

 

TheFreak-exactly, maybe Toronto or Detroit if they lost their people, but Milwaukee's chemistry well, uh....it sucks.

Don't forget about Orlando and Chicago perhaps passing them. There's no way they'll be in the top 10, and no way they'll fall past 20.

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The more lefties on your team, the better.
Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong?
Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.

 

Who is gonna help us play the Lakers?

I think the Pacers showed with Perkins that the best line-up against Shaq is with a big man who can shoot and stretch the defense. Not saying Collier should start at 5 but he can play some minutes there when Cato is in foul trouble (and he will be).

 

Freak- I couldn't agree more. Almu, talent is not everything. Collier is not the most talented player by far here, and yes he loses out to Moiso and E. Thomas. But sometimes the most talented team doesn't win. (see Portland) You have to have the little intangibles like team chemistry, etc. to win and Collier brings that to the table. He can play multiple positions, can play from the inside and out, and brings a rebounding presence. That was certainly terrible analysis, and I think all of you slamming Collier and Langhi need to wait until the season begins. Give them a chance- I think they'll be worth it.

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Member of the pro-Collier/ Langhi movement. IN RUDY WE TRUST!!

[This message has been edited by The Cat (edited June 29, 2000).]

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/basketball/nba/2000/draft/collier_jason.htm

"Jason is a very hard worker. He always works hard. He’s a much mature player now, much more relaxed."
--Bobby Cremins, Head Basketball Coach - Georgia Tech

Analysis

By George Rodecker
Special to SportsLine

May 2000: Collier finished his college career in fine fashion, but by avoiding the
Phoenix camp, he has allowed several others to pass him by in the predraft
rankings.

Collier needs to come into Chicago in shape, be willing to play, and leave it all
on the floor. Without anything further to go on, many NBA teams will remain
unsure and back off him until the non-guaranteed salary portion that is the second round.

January 2000: Collier has played with a grit and determination this season, never before on display. His
offense is sterling, 20 points per game on 54 percent shooting, 45 percent accuracy from the three point
line and 75 percent for free throws. His defense is rock solid with 3.5 blocks per contest and he continues
to do so without getting into foul difficulty, thus keeping himself on the floor. Blossoming into a leader and a
player who lets the game come to him, he has unparalleled success on a team whose trademark has
always been guard play. After a much ballyhooed transfer from Indiana, the former Hoosier has settled down
to become a legitimate NBA first round draft pick.

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I am having trouble believing that both Collier & langhi will be on the roster. There games are too similar. One of them is going somewhere in a trade........Count on it.

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"Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight

 

Ya'll are forgetitng Milwalkee took the Pacers to the limit. They already have talent, now they are getting a more balanced line-up 1-5 with their offseason moves. I would say a 4 or 5 slot in the east is well within their reach. There is no way the Bulls will be better than them, no way Detriot (if they lose GH), doubtful Toronto (losing McGrady) and doubtful Orlando (barring BOTH TD & GH singing). Barring major injuies and other offseason happenings (Allen and Cassell have shown some brittleness, you never know), Mil, Phily and Char will all be fighting for slots 4-5-6 next year IMO.

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"The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though."

 

Sir, I don't think it matters what the reason is, the bottom line is the world champions are not an athletic team at all. Neither was the team they played against.

I think the main difference here between the Rockets' thinking and the detractors, is that the detractors wanted to "settle". They decided on a need (athletic big man, for example), and if the best of that group were gone, by golly they were going to take what was left, even if the quality wasn't as good. I call that a wasted pick. The Rockets recognized that the quality was not there, so rather than settle for what they were given, they made a move that they knew would help them in some way, that really fit the direction they were going in, and picked up another good first rounder in the process. They didn't allow themselves to settle for some athlete that may or may not pan out. That, my friends, is a smart move. They took the bull by the horns and went out and got what they wanted, instead of letting themselves get screwed by the teams above them. They're also paying out the salary of a #15 player, rather than a #9, which helps their cap next year. They're positioning themselves to be the Orlando Magic of next year, with multiple picks as well as cap room. Sounds better than taking the "tallest guy left who can jump the highest", doesn't it?

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Too-Rye-Aye!

 

Sir, Milwaukee also took the Pacers to the limit the year before, when they finished 6th. They came back the next year and finished 8th.

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Too-Rye-Aye!

 

And the Kings took the Lakers to the limit.

We had even series with LA and Portland, and we're not on their level.

Cassell overachieved. I refuse to believe he plays at an all star level all the time.

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The more lefties on your team, the better.
Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong?
Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.

 

I like the word you use Freak, settle. In my mind that is what we did. The draft didn't go well for us so we tried to get the best player to fit a role (shooting big man), at the cost of a far more valued player (Pryz). I also happen to think Moiso and Thomas will make better NBA players than Collier, and they shouldn't have been that much harder to get (only a couple of slots earlier). It just so happens the two late lottery picks I wanted fit most of the athletic, defensive oriented, long, intense, big-man prototype I was especially looking for (granted neither fit all of these criteria, but Swift and Martin were gone).

I just don't like how things ended for us because we didn't address our bigger weakness NOR kept the player with most absulote value (that probably was Pryz). I sincerely hope I am as wrong about this as I was about thinking we should have taken Baby Jordan.

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"The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though."