MJ: "I would never have called up Larry, Magic & say lets get together."

I think there are many of us simply disagreeing with the idea that the Cavs were not a contender. They were. They were in the ECF. They regularly beat the best teams. You can't really come closer to a championship then the Cavs did without getting one. (unless you're Utah -- but there was absolutely no injustice there). This wasn't a KG in Minny situation.

It doesn't mean his teammates could carry the team without him. Or that he wasn't within his rights to jump to a better team. Or above criticism for doing so...especially given the public way he did it.

But the Cavs were a contender. Mainly because of James...sure. But you'd have to have an odd definition of contender to say they weren't given their results. No?

 

Here are Lebron's stats in recent losing playoff series:

http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...0&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=2

http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=19

http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...8&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=2

I'll summarize, last year vs Boston he had a line of 27 9 7 2 1 (ppg rpg apg bpg spg) & 1.41PPS (efficient). The year before vs Orlando he had a line of 39 8 8 1 1 & 1.50PPS (ridiculously efficient). The year before that he had a line of 27 6 8 2 1 & 1.21PPS (moderately efficient vs the slam dunk best defensive team that year and one who shut down Kobe/Gasol). Also note each year he doubled the scoring output of the next guy on the roster--Jamison, Mo W, & Z.

Blaming him for the Cleve playoff failures is a bit like blaming Jordan for the 80s playoff losses, or blaming Wilkens for the famous Boston failure.

I personally think the Orlando series was the turning point for the Cleveland franchise and Lebron. He played phenomenal, probably the highest level of an individual in a playoff run since Wade's playoff MVP, and they lost to a team in 6, that in turn lost in what 5-6, to the Lakers. It was obvious to me, and I think anyone objective, Shaq and Jamison didn't change that formula. Lebron wasn't going to beat an opponent deep in the playoffs when the next best 3 or 4 guys playing are on the other team. The exceptions to this I can think of in 30 years of watching the NBA are with the Heat and Hakeem's 94 team. Lebron would have locked himself into 1 maybe 2 titles at the max in Cleveland, and maybe won none.

 

Somebody post Lebron's numbers in deciding games

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280518002
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290530019
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300513002

-He averaged 32 per game in those elimination loses.

 

I dont understand all this revisionist stuff that fans regurgitate about Jordan.

First, Jordan DID very much "team up." He desperately wanted Rodman because he knew he would never again win another championship without the right pieces. This despite the fact that Rodman was a cornerstone of the Bad Boys of Detroit and bigger enemies to Jordan's Bulls than even the Celtics. After he got smashed in the playoffs in 1995 he was all ears about "teaming up" with the best defensive player and rebounder in the league despite all those years that Rodman personified evil to Chicago fans

Second, Jordan was far from the most competitive in the league. If he were truly competitive and determined to be "the best" he wouldn't have been satisfied with 3 championships and quit the game. The only reason Jordan has more than 3 rings is because he was rubbish at baseball.

If Jordan was truly as "competitive" as the image that Nike and $tern sold you Jordan would have targeted Russell's 11 rings at a young age as Lebron is doing now.

as for Lebron, yes he probably would have won in Cleveland eventually but he wouldn't have a dynasty to rival Auerbach's Celtics anywhere but Miami. (I think he was a punkass for leaving for what it's worth but there was logic in his move in truth)