MJ: "I would never have called up Larry, Magic & say lets get together."

Even if the heat 4 or 5 championships, it wouldn't have the same taste as if he won it in Cleveland, I don't think Lebanon could be ever compared as good as MJ.

 

With the way the team looked contract wise LeBron was not going to win a Championship in Cleveland.

Did most of you expect for him to stay there just to stay there?

 

I agree, but the more I look back and read about what has all gone on, the more I'm a believer.

Simmons says he heard the three had a pact to play together since the Olympics. That seems crazy, right? But then you see all three set themselves up for FA at the same time.. that suddenly Miami refuses to bring Wade any help in 09 because Riley wanted to preserve its cap space. Riley starts trading 1st round picks and contracts for pennies to the dollar, desperate to get as much cap space as possible. Why? I think he might have known something not a lot of other guys did.. which makes sense since DWade is in his backpocket and has been open in his lobbying for players to come to the Heat.

Chris Bosh had dinner with Wade and then tweeted that it felt like someone was missing -- who could he be referring to? I think, looking back, its starts to become more clear that these three had every intention of playing together, if possible. Riley got wind of this and starts destroying his team to give him the cap space to pull it off.

2009, the Cavs desperate to put together a team that can make the finals for what would eventually be LBJ's last season. They trade for Shaq; trade for Jamison; tried to sign Ariza but the "King" wouldn't commit to being in town with TA (again, why not? Oh yeah, Olympics..). After the Boston series (including a game where the 'best player on the planet' doesn't score a FG until the 3rd quarter), LBJ disappears. Cleveland barely has any contact with him -- they fire Ferry/Brown on the assumption that LBJ wanted them gone. they recruited (almost successfully) one of the top teachers/coaches in the game.. but he wouldn't sign because LBJ wouldn't even return a text or phone call from him. Why? Oh yeah, because he knew he was leaving.

Cleveland is not a hot free agent destination. But the Cavs tried everything to surround him with help (Shaq/Jamison) -- it's hard to recruit FAs when your best player can't tell them he'll be there to help them win it all. Hard to recruit the best coaches like that too.

LeBron was not the same player during these playoffs as he has been in years past. I could see that from just watching him.. especially in the Boston series. He had some fluke "elbow injury" problem that no MRI/X-ray could pick up on. He sinks a FT to put the game out of reach, then suddenly his elbow hurts too much to shoot regular so he has go to left-handed in the final seconds? Come on.. the kid's a diva. That last FT was for SportsCenter and nothing else.

I don't know 100% if he quit on his team (like VC admitted before), but from watching him in the Boston series it sure felt that way. The aftermath of Free Agency, combined with these rumors coming out about their Olympic pact, only help strengthen the argument in my mind.

I think most would agree that there's no way he could have left CLE if they won a championship -- that was his only excuse for leaving.

 

i actually never though about it that way...i did think he quit against boston, but i saw it as quitting once he realized he was getting no help...i didnt consider quitting in order to lose, period...dont know if that's the case, but i'd love to know if it was...

When you struggle it points to you shooting usually...fine, he can stop shooting or forcing shots...but he pretty much stopped trying to do anything besides passsing off the ball to someone else. Was he struggling to shoot, drive, dribble, create, etc?? all of them? A guy as talent as he is doesnt struggle overall like that. You can't shut a guy down like that, even if he had a bad elbow or whatever.

and this quote is for my previous post about barkley and his piggy back:

“If I was 25 I would try to win it by myself. When your 25 you shouldn’t try to piggyback"

 

I remembered how he grabbed a rebound from Ben to complete his triple double and the league forfeited it. I also remembered how he was the one defending Alston while his teammates got beat by the taller Turkish in 09. The guy had so many fastbreak blocks highlights but wasn't a good one on one defender. Kobe shut down Westbrook and Rondo, took Melon in 4th quarter when he had to. Who had LeBron shut down? PP, sorry, he struggled often enough when he had to play defense. RA struggled on offense in finals when he had to defend Kobe.

But above all, how about letting all star teammates have the touch to play like all stars? Mo averaged 6.3 assists in Bucks before the trade, 4.1 and 5.3 since, he didn't need LeBron's 2, 3 made baskets, he just needed the ball more. So is Shaq and Jamison. They didn't get their 20s by making shots from 18ft beyond. They got there because they initialized the offense often enough.

 

Ok now, why don't we see how well the Cavs do this year? I mean, wow the Cavs won 60 games right? LBJ leaving should have an effect, but they should still be pretty good right? After all, it was LBJ quitting that caused them to lose, and not because his team stunk, right?

If they win 45 or more games, then you're right LBJ was the reason they didn't win. If they end up in lottery then its because the cast is crap. Deal?

 

Lol go ahead debate it up Lebron fans, after this year you guys won't have to 2nd guess if he could win it by himself or if Kobe or MJ could of done it on the Cleveland Roster....

Starting from now own LBJ is DWade biatch!!!!!!!!!!!Dwade is going to be the alpha dog, LBJ can get his triples, but we all know Dwade is the one who got them all there and he will be the 4th quarter closer so LBJ can be a big PG.

I am happy for Robin, he always needed a Batman. But in this case if Dwade is Flash does that make LBJ Speedy or just Flashes GF's?

 

Why cant it be both sides quit on each other AND the cast isnt good enough to help him win a ring?

I dont think this season will indicate how they'd really play without lebron, if lebron never existed....they're going to win at least 5-7 more games this year on effort alone because they'll have "The Decision" playing in their heads. It wouldnt surprise me if they actually started of real well.

 

They also lost Shaq, and 3 teams (Miami, NYK and Bulls) got so much better. That being said, I expect them to contend for playoff. Some LeBron fans said they'll be 20 wins team, we can all be patient to see.

 

that's the weird thing to me.

why quit in game 5? and get a triple double in game 6?

why not just qut in round 1 and make it easier on himself and lower expectations to begin with

 

if he did quit to lose, then it makes more sense to do it in the playoffs...in the regular season he'd have to quit like 30 times to stop them from being considered a good team. If he quits early in the playoffs then it makes no sense against a poor team...but against a defensive minded boston team in the playoffs he just needs to quit no more than enough to lose 4 games and he could argue the competition was too good.

 

The argument that LeBron quit to lose is stupid.

What would he have to gain by losing?

 

another false statement that lebron dominates the ball more than kobe (or by a ton)

Usage Pct
1. Dwyane Wade-MIA 34.9
2. LeBron James-CLE 33.5
3. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 33.4
4. Kobe Bryant-LAL 32.3
5. Kevin Durant-OKC 32.0
6. Monta Ellis-GSW 29.4

Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

so lebron is involved in 33.5% of the plays when he's on the floor. i'm assuming he's touching the ball when he's involved. kobe is at 32.3%.

a whopping difference of 0.8. wow. really?

get a grip brother.

esp. mo will and jamison have ample opportunities with the ball to show what they can do in the playoffs. they were just not stand still shooters like you are implying. go watch the games again.

even delonte west for god sakes get a ton of plays run for him when he's on the floor; he isos a ton.

 

nice to know. let me know when wade was EVER in the conversation as the best player on the planet with lebron

 

I just checked the usage pct stats on basketball-reference and was looking for Chris Paul and he is nowhere to be found. This cannot be right.

 

I agree, that's why this theory that he quit and it was all part of his masterplan is dubious at best. From what I saw, I think he was struggling and got fed up w/ his teammates in that game. He was still playing hard, but was no longer pushing through his struggles and exerting his will on the game.

 

that's stupid. the further he goes, the higher the expectations.

if he wants to quit and yet reduce all the criticisms, he could easily struggle during the reg. season and get a poor seed and get eliminated in the first round.

there's a reason lebron's standards are so ridiculously high.

 

what happened was this (and if you saw the games you would know)

when he got the elbow injury, he lacked confidence in his jumper. what he would do to start games is try to let his teammates be more involved and he would focus on playmaking, rebounding, and defense.

but they were always behind so he started shooting more in the 2nd half (game 2 and 5 were prime examples).

i think in game 5, he got really frustrated with his teammates and frustration did take over.

and in game 6, he said eff that, i'll try to do every damn thing even if we lose -> hence he got a crazy statline triple double.

you can say whatever about lebron, but quitting is not it. quitting is easily seen on defense, where that aspect of the game is the easiest to see effort.

he never quit in his effort to stop paul pierce. and he shut him down.

 

the cavs were a 60+ win team BEFORE shaq and jamison. so moot point.

FYI: the cavs are 1-6 without lebron past 2 seasons.

 

he was top 10 2 years ago. last year, he was injured and collison handled the ball quite a bit even when paul was back. he didn't try to score as much with collison on board.