You guys are funny. 3814, you post the HOTTEST CHICK MUSICIAN thread and somehow you think you treat women fairly? I assume your next will be HOTTEST DUDE MUSICIAN, right? Guys and their ideas of getting together are really strange. I've never been one to deny the existence of male bonding. I have male friends and we act like guys, watch sports, etc. But, what I find hilarious is this threatened feeling that women are taking something away from us. Last time I went to a sports bar or hung out with guys in a group, the conversation was dominated alternately by: 1. sports 2. hot-looking women So, even in our "time together," we talk about the opposite sex even though we complain that we don't have enough places to ourselves. Wierd. Ya' know, I know of LOTS of places where men hang out with only men. I'm sure outlaw is familar with them. But, I guess that wouldn't be what you meant. giddyup: Yes, there are good things about America, but we were not built on sitting around and patting ourselves on the back. Our entire society was founded on telling the British to piss off. One act of protest and defiance (the Boston Tea Party) was as symbolic of our freedom as the Declaration of Independance was. It is the right and responsibility of every American to stand up and protest what they see as wrong. Sitting around while things you don't like happen is an irresponsible act for any true patriot.
Giddy -- Women have been played there all this time as well. They're allowed to play as guests of the male members. So its not like Augusta is a sacred white male paradise that's never been defiled by a female presence. And since they do have exactly ONE African-American member we can't say they're racist either. At issue is not whether men should have places to "escape" from women, but, rather if CBS (whose audience does include millions of women) should lend their implicit support to this exclusionary policy by airing the tournament. If the club policy was to not admit African-Americans, Hispanics, Jews, etc...I think we'd be seeing a very different reaction here. Frankly, this issue just isn't that upsetting to me. Hootie Johnson's "no girls allowed" club probably won't last too much longer anyway. Those who cling violently to the past are almost always doomed to failure.
<b>Jeff</b> and <b>Mrs.JB</b>:: Okay, so The Boston Tea Party = The Masters Tee Party.... I appreciate the fundamental important role of protest. That's why I don't like to see it mis-applied to every little thing we don't like. Boycotts should be reserved for righting wrongs not about trying to get your way about things you just don't like. Save it. It never hurts to pat yourself on the back some of the time. At now time in history has a country builf on our principles survived and thrived for as long as the good old USA. Now we are picking at it unnecessarily in the bigger scope of things. Mrs.JB.. I've always wanted to ask you this, "Your moniker on this site is a very traditional one. Are you doomed to failure, as you say the members of Augusta National are?
I will not support any woman organization until they admit Betty Friedan back to the fold, and embrace her book The Second Stage. Until then, they are all a bunch of hypocrites.
haha...no it won't be. women talk about "hot/cute guys" alot just like i talk about hot women. its not anything about how i treat them, it is simply what i think about their outer beauty. however, i do treat women i know with respect and treat them fair in everything i can think of that i do. on other boards i see girls talking about the cutest guy...and guys talking about the hottest girl --- it goes both ways, that has nothing to do with how i treat women...i gotta admit, i like women alot more than i like guys
My moniker was a little joke -- I signed up with the intention of posting something silly in a thread about Jeff. I didn't think I'd keep posting. Who knew? In the real world though I didn't change my name when I got married. So, technically, I'm actually Ms. RM.
Well, <b>RM</b>, I thought so. Just curious. What is Hootie Johnson's "no girls allowed" about? Is that a Houston thing?
The accusation of sex discrimination by this women group is flawed. Just because one club doesn't admit female members doesn't mean they discriminate against them. There's female members only clubs too. Men needs some privacy and a social circle to talk about stuffs that're not suitable with the presence of ladies, and vice versa. There's no men demanding being admitted into a female member only club as they respect women's rights to exclude the opposite sex when needed, women should do the same as well. Funny how women never b**** about male paying for dates, at least not in my case.
Either most of ya'll misunderstand or I misunderstand. The group wasn't trying to prohibit these men from getting together and playing on their golf course all by their lonesome. Why the uproar about this group from so many folks. They are trying to put pressure (consumer, not legal--which contrary to G-up I think the former is one fo the most healthy forms of protest) so that a major, if not the major, golf turney in the world in which thousands of kids and adults watch isn't held at a discrimatory club promoting itself. How would ya'll feel if the major turney was played at a club golf course that normally DID NOT allow Blacks to be members, or Christians to be members, or Jews to be members, or non-KKK members. The bottom line is they can have their little private discriminatory club--these are not attempts to ban the club any more than groups are trying to ban than the KKK, various religions, or entirely private all-gender schools. But all the power to these women and like thinking men who want to make that club as less influential and less popular as possible through the most democratic means possible--consumers' protests.
Why is the membership policy relevant to the tournament at all? Most of the players are not members. The policy that determines who gets into the Masters has nothing to do with the policy of who gets into Augusta. Should Augusta have to allow anyone on their course, even though they are private? That makes no more sense than saying 'CBS is broadcasting that discriminatory PGA or US Open that does not allow women into the draw.' Have to disagree with you DS. Nowhere does the NCWO state their aim to reduce the influence of Augusta. Their only stated goal is to force Augusta to change their membership policy. Big difference. So it is exactly comparable to a male forcing themself into an all-female school (wish I had thought of that when I was going to college - for the good of us all of course, ), and I wonder how people feel about that. Should 'like minded people' be able to congregate in a private setting without being forced to open their ranks to anyone who want to join? I think anything but allowing that is anti-democratic and silly.
This group's protest is like a pot calling the kettle black. In case you don't know, Betty Friedan was kicked out of NOW, the national organization for women, because she was not a lesbian.
First, I would like to point out that Hootie Johnson said that Augusta doesn't have any exclusionary policies and that membership policies are private. It just happens that at present that there are no women in the club but there could be in the future. They just don't want to be pressured into accepting members by outside forces which is their right and I think is understandable. At a club near where I live which is not nearly as popular as Augusta, the waiting list to get in is ten years and of course you have to be sponsored by another member, etc. I'm sure that the waiting list for Augusta is pretty long and so admittance to the club should be taken very seriously. Having said that, I do think that discrimination based on sex exists which is of course wrong. For some reason it is more acceptable than discrimination based on race. I wonder if Tiger would play at Augusta if the club had no Black members.
Do you know you Betty Friedan is? She was the mother of modern feminism. She was also kicked out of NOW because she was not a lesbian when the more radical feminist began to emerge. Basically, The Second Stage is a kind of response to radical feminism. One of the main points is that FAMILIES, both men and women, should work TOGETHER to gain rights for women. The woman's rights movement should include Family rights, like daycare at jobs and such, so that women can be MOTHERS.
It is relevant because having a major tournament there makes the club and club members more influential. If it was some unkept insignificant course without multimillion dollar events broadcasted on network TV there probably would be no protest. As I said before if the club didn't have any minority members, only allowed Protestants to join, or only allowed Jewish people to join, don't you think many people's here defending the club would have a much bigger problem with holding a tourney at that particular club if they were one of the excluded groups. Well to me that is an awfully soft "force" and I am reading between the lines a little bit. It isn't like they are trying to ban, or make illegal through the courts, destroy/vandalize, or otherwise "force" the Augusta club to change or perish, they are trying to get it off TV and no sponsors through consumer protest. To me obviously what they are doing is using the most social acceptable form of protest (boycott, using consumer pressure) to try to get the Augusta club to get the 20th century or be a non-player in the world of prof. golf (no pun intended). I am judging more by their actions, not their stated "goal". I have don't have much of problems with private schools being all-girls or all-boys or whatever. However I do have a problem if public moneys of any sort go to them and they are exclusionary. Further let says they get to the level of Harvard or Yale (which used to only admit White-Protestant-old money males) where those institutions have a significant political and economic influence because of their status and wealth (the analogy to the Masters) you can be darned right I would support all the consumer pressure to either 1) get them to get with it, or 2) while protecting their right to existence (just as I would with the KKK as horrible as I think their views and practices are) to try to diminish their influence through consumer directed pressure. As for KBM point that is just silly. As far as i know the NWO is a political organization with a political agenda, it is not a club for women. Further, political organizations of all sorts have blind spots and do shortsided things--if they actually kicked Friedan out of the whole organization versus diminishing her leadership role because her views were out of step with other leaders I certainly would not support what the organization did. But every political organization has surely made mistakes and get's out of focus (to narrow) at times--to suggest they then don't have a right to protest the Masters being held at a club that in writing and/or certainly in practice would exclude women because people in the organization have been short-sided, again, is just silly.
Desert Scar, how is it silly? It's not silly - it's relevant. I really think you need to study more about WHAT I SAID. Read The Second Stage and you will see for yourself that there's a whole other side to feminism than the one you know [assumption here]. And while your at it, pick up a copy of The Feminine Mystique or read what people on amazon have to say about it; then you may understand the gravity of who Betty Friedan was and how removing her from NOW as both President and member has significates. Furthermore, you say IF they did kick her out as if you think I might be misunderstood. I am not. Look it up for yourself. At any rate, i'm probably just wasting my time here. You want to call my points silly without the slightest hit of consideration. You are content with looking at an issue in terms of black or white: Augusta National is in the wrong you feel because, clearly, it should admit women. I never disagreed or agreed with that point. My only point is that woman's groups have done the same since the beginning, so maybe they should consider for a moment their own actions, get those right, then I could feel sorry for them, back them.
Actually, it is a now defunct alliance of professional wrestlers started by Terry "Hulk" Hogan, Scott Hall, and Kevin Nash.
I played Riverside yesterday and shot an 83. I had a 15 ft eagle chip on number 18 and just rolled by the hole...of course I missed the 4 ft birdie putt and had to settle for a par, but ....that is GOLF. DaDakota
I said IF not because I didn't know if she was kicked off the orgazination entirely, was removed as president, or any other details. My argument wasn't about what they did was wrong in that case, or whether the NOW is infallable. I'll take your word for it she was entirely kicked out of the organization, and I would disagree with that action, but I also don't know all the facts (if she was trying to splinter the organization or not and other underlying internal politics I assume you are privy to). What I thought was silly was that because the NOW, a political group and not a social club, kicked an individual out they shouldn't have or have acted improperly in the past, somehow invalidates their ability (and you seem to imply they represent "women's groups in general") to provide social commentary and organize protests. I don't agree with that at all, thugh in hindsight I shouldn't have used the word silly because it detracted from where the discussion was going and I am sorry about that. But again I don't agree that because the NOW kicked out Freidan they and women's groups in general somehow don't have valid arguments regarding the Augusta club. Political organizations kicking an individual out for internal or political reasons (whatever they were) is different from clubs excluding groups of people for no other reason than their religion, skin tone, sexual preference or genitials, etc. Also, do you think women's political groups are unique among political groups in that they have kicked out members who they don't perceive as supportive of common goals??? Not saying it is right, but do you think it is unique???
