Its an interesting question with no right answer. As biological beings we are hardwired to want to procreate. Evolutionarily we are really nothing more than very fancy gene delivery and replication systems so its no wonder why you would want to or even need to have your own kids. Love though isn't limited to biology or evolution and if you can love a kid who does spring from your loins that's a great thing. I don't have kids but I love my two young cousins who I am helping to raise and they aren't even related to me biologically. Its a noble sentiment to consider adopting a kid for the betterment of humanity but personally I think that is the wrong reason to do so and probably not something to build a relationship with that child. If you want to adopt a child do it because there is a child there that you love and want part of your family rather than as some grand noble gesture.
I don't see how having children is a selfless thing. It's basically what we're designed to do. Adoption being selfless I understand.
agreed..i'm not sure I could adopt..I've always said that if i was financially stable I would, but now that I have my own, I truly don't want to go through the diaper stage again...very selfish I know...plus having/wanting to take the time to work with someone and learn to love unconditionally is tough...much respect to people that adopt...
agreed. It seems pretty arrogant actually. What like you are so awesome you need to make more of you? Your DNA is so great the world needs more of it?
This was basically stated in the Hangout thread, but there's an important difference between "making babies" and "being a parent". "making babies" is basically a product of instinct. "being a parent", whether they are your own biological offspring or not, is an extremely unselfish act.
When you have children, you essentially set aside your life to care for them. Money, living expenses, time alone, time with your spouse, family and/or friends, spur of the moment trips, expenditures, etc. all tend to go away when you have children.
I'd say that's not true in my family's case. It took some time to internalize. The benefit is that the process of including a biological baby in your family is that they are very, very young when you start.
Unless you have that kid on accident though, having a child is usually done for selfish reasons. Very few people actually ask "Hey, should I bring a child into this world? There is some spirit in the spirit world that deserves to live! I want to have a baby and set aside my life so they have a chance to live!" Most people who have kids either get pregnant on accident or get pregnant because they want children to fulfill their desire for them. It's not selfless. Being a good parent on the other hand requires selflessness quite often.
It may make it selfless in the strictest sense of the word, but having your own kids isn't noble like parents try to make it seem. That's the life you chose for yourself. Being a hardcore stamp collector can take up a lot of your time and resources too, that doesn't make it some benevolent thing. People have kids for several reasons. All selfish. 1) Emotional need - "I have too much love to give!" It's about you. You want something to love. Get a dog. 2) Legacy - Ahhh, the children of the arrogant. They think having children means they are essentially living on after they're dead. 3) Biological - Either succumbing to lust with carelessness or simply procreating because they think that's what they're supposed to do. 4) Vanity - They want a little them. Perfect for high school football stars or wannabe beauty queens. You may be selfless after the thing is born and sacrifice for them, but the act of having that child itself is completely selfish. If you're desperate to fill that emotional void I suggest adoption like others have already said.
I think someone proclaiming their act of parenting as selfless (loudly) is selfish in and of itself. There are parents out there that actually expect some sort of reparation from their children later on for all the work it took in raising them. That mindset disturbs me. Personally, I want kids just to spread my seed and live on. I know this and accept this as a selfish reason, though.
Very true. But there are a lot of parents who make very quiet sacrifices to be good parents. Husbands and wives too. To be a good parent you will need to be selfless many times as you raise a child, but actually getting pregnant and giving birth is in no way selfless.
Wow, great responses, a lot of perspective. Thanks for the props and the opposing views. I understand the mythical "it's just different, you connect easier" side of it. I'm just not sure I believe it anymore. I'm wondering how much of that is a product of making yourself believe that. How much hand do you have in subconsciously deciding "this is different"? I think for me having adopted and biological kids would be the most difficult. The process is hard enough without having to get a child/teenager to understand it. I'm also not really sure what is the right reason to have a kid? Why have a kid? It's important to isolate the reason. You want to make love to your wife (check) and you want to raise children (check). What makes it HAVE to be your biological children? How does it change anything? I say all this with a lot of doubt. I still have a feeling that having biological kids is something I want to do. But like I said, I'm wondering how much of that is genuine and ethical. I'm sure there are certain things which wouldn't carry over, but that (to me) is a luxury rather than a necessity. Which comes back to the point - do I feel happy that I'm taking the luxurious route while there are children whom I could help? If helping other people and raising other people and teaching other people and being there for other people is not the reason to have kids, then what is it? I can't imagine that a biological child is somehow more special or unique or mystically connected to me than an adopted child. Is there a difference between an adopted child saying "you're not my daddy" and your own child WANTING to say so but not being able to do so? I know, so many questions. I've been thinking about this all day honestly. I just wonder if, even if there is a special bond, it is worth the opportunity lost to save someone born into a doomed life.
I think your logic is too idealistic. If one were to make that type of assessment and aggregate it to every aspect of one's life, we would all be pretty successful in making life difficult on ourselves. Is owning nice clothes unethical when a significant number of people in the world dont own more than one pair of clothes? Is owning or living in a place of shelter unethical because so many people are homeless? what about eating too much? or spending a lot of money for food? driving a car with poor gas mileage? you get the point. Dont get me wrong, I feel that the logic your wife and you are using is noble, and whether or not you want to have kids is your own prerogative. But to describe the act of having kids as being unethical is a bit of a stretch when there are so many other areas that any human being can cut down on while still having kids. In my mind, there are certain reasons why people would want to have children that are difficult to articulate. As I've heard quite often from friends with kids, you have to have kids to really understand the joy of parenthood.
I think this is exactly right. Sure, Gooshie is accurate in describing why the desire to have kids is selfish, but it is virtually impossible to live life completely selflessly, and I don't think it's a good idea anyway. Just take each decision as it comes and if you can make the selfless choice then, great. If not, that's fine, maybe you can on the next decision. This applies to having kids as much as anything else. You can be happy either way.
Agree with this. I don't know much about Mathloom, but I am uncomfortable calling having children "unethical" unless you are birthing them for some sinister purpose. Additionally, when you pay money to access the internet while a large portion of the world wallows in poverty, it seems kind of silly to fret about whether your conscience can recover from the atrocity that is bringing a child into the world.
