A couple facts you might want to remember about Chris Bosh and his salary

Good post, Carl.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Carl Herrera again.

 

The year they missed the playoffs, rudy t had to quit mid season because of health issues and the team had injuries like butler and odom. The next 2 years, they made the playoffs in the west. Year 3, they had the best record in the west until bynum went down. When he got complimemtary player in gasol, they ent to the finals 3 yrs in a row. He was taking luke walton and kwame brown to the playoffss. The teams bosh has led cant even consistently make the playoffs in the east. Like i mentioned earlier, a max player should be able to take a bag of doughnut holes to the playoffs. Stephan Jackson goes from gsw and leads the bobcats to the playoffs. The freakin bobcats? Max paid players should at least get you to the dance.

 

What about Rudy Gay? He's a max player, but the Grizzlies didn't make it.

 

Maybe I wasn't clear. With the artificial budget ceiling, teams can generally not have more than 2 max guys without having some semblance of a remaining roster. I doubt Houston is even entertaining the thought of having 3 max guys on the team. So even if a certain player may have a "market" value greater than the artificial salary maximum - that does not mean that that player should be signed regardless or that the player is question is "worth it".

If that were the case, then Houston should go ahead an sign Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. Unfortunately this isn't baseball and we aren't the Yankees. We would have to determine whether or not getting Bosh is worth it considering the artificial (and real) budget limitations.

I'm not saying that he's not worth it. I personally hope we get him and it works out. He is not a "slam-dunk" like Lebron and Wade though - but probably is the best viable option out there unless something is going on that hasn't been reported.

 

Big mistake. Now if he was starting at 10m or luol deng money, i can maybe see that. I've been consistent about being able to get your team into the playoffs as a young player. Roy has gotten his team in the playoffs every year after his 2nd year in the west.

 

I'm just saying that I'm not convinced that it's a no-brainer. I think it's clear that he isn't a slam-dunk like the others based on pure talent.

We have some complaints about Bosh - not a tremendous shot-blocker, not a great defender, not an incredible rebounder....but if WAS these things, we probably couldn't afford him (in trade assets). However, the key thing here is that if Bosh is a medium-level max contract guy, his value to the Rockets still depends on the fit.

If Bosh is a great fit - ie he makes Yao better by giving him space to work, he is mobile and long enough and willing enough to fit in our defensive scheme, he can help us play a high-paced game when Yao is out - then he is worth well more than the max to us - and that's probably where Morey is placing a high valuation on him.

Bosh is not an offensive distorter on the level of Yao - he won't force you to make adjustments just for him, but with our current level of talent and a healthy Yao, we won't need him to be that.

 

There is nothing wrong with a player trying to maximize his earnings.

The bigger discussion is the cap, but that is moot because it is in place.

Chris Bosh may end up having to choose between max money and his preferred destination.

The question really is, if he chooses money will he be as motivated as he would choosing his favorite situation?

DD

 

He's played well in Toronto. I'd be happy if he plays that well in Houston if we got him.

 

That sounds very cold that the best way to get good value is underpaying max, young players and restricted free agents. And true free agents like Gilbert Arenas or Rudy Gay are getting 100% of what they could ever get on an open market, they are the ones that disadvantage your team.

But its the truth - David Lee and Carlos Boozer types on the open market are NOT the bargains and they will kill your teams, if its about salary caps. Because they bloat up a team's payroll, therefore reducing talent everywhere else. They are only doing what they're supposed to do. But Eric Dampier, Peja Stojakovic and Andrei Kirilenko getting their actual open market money doesnt do anything for a team. They need to take 40% less to make it "fair" and "balanced".

 

I'd argue that:
1. Bosh's supporting cast has been just as awful as Kobe's pre-Gasol, if not worse, as Kobe did have a player who fully has the potential of being an All-Star in Odom. Bosh has had.... Barganni. A washed-up Jermaine O'Neal. Turky Glue. And that's to mention Kobe even during those years was playing under the greatest coach of all time, while Bosh has had freaking Jay Triano. The fact is the Raptors as an organization are freaking obsessed with their European jump-shooting play no defense guys, which is a complete disaster from which they never learn from.
2. Garnett between his MVP season and him being sent to Boston. Not to mention that heck, the difference between 40 wins and 42 wins which gets you swept in the first round over and over again isn't that big.

Really? Jackson might have been the piece that put the Bobcats over the top, but the Bobcats without Jackson are far superior to the Raptors without Bosh, especially when one realizes that the Bobcats have an All-Star and an all-time great coach. If you have a crap team with 10 wins and add a player who gets you another 25 wins, and you have a team with 25 and add a player who gets you 10 wins, that doesn't mean the latter player is superior to the former.

 

I've been saying that just having a salary cap means owners really dont care so much WHO gets the fairest allotment of the money. As long as they dont have to go over a certain amount every year. If the salary cap was $5 million a year, would they care? Did the Pistons look around the league and saying it isnt fair we can pay Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva almost as much as Lebron? As long as they get to pocket some of the money, they'll worry about that stuff some other time.

Still, sports league have some kind of revenue sharing at the top. Players' CBA is something similar to that. Owners are about business/players about business. Understandable. Owners share money/players share money?

It keeps parity in the league as well. Even though the NBA has as much repeat champions as other leagues, in premiere soccer leagues its the SAME 3 TEAMS winning it over the last 30 years. In the NBA, if its about a player getting his TRUE open market worth, he'd go to the team that would historically pay him that. And itd be the same lack of parity. All the players would go to the Knicks and Lakers.

 

great post.

Many, many people needed to read that.

 

So now the #1 pick and a high effeient guard in the east isw trash? Have u seen wade's support? He had that same jermaine o'neal and every gm would take bargiana and calderon over chalmers and beasley. In the lakers case,after yr one post haq and getting the pieces, they traded butler for brown which is a downgrade. Kobe got mihm,smush parker,kwame,walton and the machine in the playoffs.

KG,pierce, and allen were former franchise players,but when they were combined, they werent. They were really good all star caliber players. They were players who consistently got their team in the playoffs as the leader.Garnett sent wally to the all star game and had hudson as a starter. Remember the sonics team when jerome james imitated bill russell on adelmans kings in the 1st rd? Pierce made it to the conf finals. Bosh cant even make the playoffs in the east.

 

It is no longer a "BIGS" league, it is a wings and PG's league...

The power has shifted....high quality wings are more important than high quality bigs.

Be great to have them both...but Wings...wings wings baby !

DD

 

Huh? Just...... huh?
The #1 pick Bosh was playing with stinking Barganni. Barganni IS not that great, and most importantly, doesn't work well with Bosh as they do pretty much the same thing, only Barganni is also somewhat lazy because Toronto pampers for no good reason.
And who's that highly efficient guard? Calderon? Can't start over Jack for a reason. Derozan? A rookie. Turkey Glue? Has virtually eaten himself out of the league. The Toronto wings are trash, they have no post up center to play with Bosh, and no one on that team can defend if their lives depended on it (which is why I don't understand the "Bosh is not a great defender" criticism - Dwight Howard couldn't make this team a top 15 defensive team. Not to mention Bosh can actually defend the pick and roll, unlike Yao, which is another way how he fits.)

And I don't know why you keep arguing "Bosh is not as good as Kobe or Wade". It's irrelevant to Carl's original point. In a perfectly free market, Wade and Kobe would be commanding much larger salaries then Bosh. But with the cap, they both have the max of around 15 million.

You can argue that paying Wade 15 million is more efficient then paying Bosh 15 million, and in a perfect vacumn, this is true. But there are two things that are ignored. The first is that Bosh fits this team better then Wade does. The second is that there is no chance in hell we get Wade.

The bottom line is this. Bosh is at worst a top 15 player in the league, and if we get him, we can rampage over everyone. That is worth the max, regardless of any subjective narratives of "clutch" or having one guy take the team to the title by himself. Short of completely starting over and tearing this down, we are not going to get a Lebron or Durant, so we're working on making a great TEAM. (Then again, I know you have no problem tearing this team down, so it's all a moot point.)

 

my argument is bosh isnt a max player. CH is talking about free market and no salary cap,but thats not the world we live in. In free market,no cap like baseball, james would probably get 30m and bosh 15m because he's that much better, but since we have this structed scale system, it balances players out. Maybe the rockets get bosh and pay him max because he's the best they can get which seems like it goes against what they have been saying value wise. I guess we will wait and see

 

Wade/Bosh to Chi ignores major issue: doing 2 S&Ts. Someone would have to take Deng's deal. No one will. Tor wants picks/trade exception.

For those saying Chi can S&T for 1 and sign other outright: forget it. Neither Bosh nor Wade is taking less than 6 yr, $120m. Nor wd you.

http://twitter.com/RicBucher

 

Excellent point, Mikeyharris.