Sorry... I don't get on the board enough to have much back and forth. I don't disagree with your general assessment of what constitutes a contending team (although there can be exceptions -- see Detroit). It just seems like the two pieces mentioned as the subject of this thread might require more "assets" (read players -- not money) than I would be willing to give up. If "significant improvements" requires getting rid of other players that we have "pursued" as I mentioned, then it may end up a wash anyhow. Good role players are a requirement for a championship team just as much as the superstar(s) you want. The Detroit team that beat the "superstar" Laker lineup was no fluke and really did not compare to the Lakers on paper. But the games aren't played on paper. 42-40 was a whole season without Yao. There was practically no post presence until after the trade to get Martin brought Jeffries and Hill. In addition, there was half a season with no real production in McGrady's spot until we got Martin. 42-40 was pretty good given these factors. In the end, you obviously want more than what we have and I would rather just tweak, like adding a Brad Miller, etc. No matter. The Rockets will end up doing what they want, not what you or I want. What they want may end up being more in agreement with you than me... I guess we'll see in the next couple of weeks. I think the smoke will have cleared and dominoes fallen pretty quickly after July 1st rolls around. I don't think we will have to wait until August.
Watching ESPN News and Bucher (I think it's Bucher) just said Bosh will consider Houston (not his exact words) because we can do a sign-n-trade and still have a very good team, but it all depends on the health of Yao since Bosh is a natural PF and doesn't want to play center. He said Bosh plans to enjoy the recruitment process.
I dont see why you dont consider Houston the first choice? Its either us get a smaller max contract with no sign and trade and also leave Toronto with nothing for that franchise in return without a sign and trade. Houston has all of the best assets for the sign and trade and only playoff ready team where he can be the man. To me thats the only place. Money? International recongition and money with China. His agent would be the most popular guy internationally getting him and Bosh more money here than anywhere else with Yao as his gateway to China. It all makes too much sense.
Just not true, Chicago can offer them picks only and get a massive trade exception, so can Miami, NY, anyone under the cap can do this...just like Seattle. Maybe they don't want other people's talent and want to just rebuild with picks. DD
If we could get Bosh and Joe Johnson for Hill, Brooks, Martin and a pick I'd really have to consider it hard but still don't know if I could pull the trigger. My gut is yes, but I would hate to give up that much.
I would rather Johnson but he want to much money so martin will do, but if we get bosh by getting Joe then heck yeah no question. As long as we keep Ariza, Scola, and please Brooks he's just to good. O and of coarse Yao....
Thats true but it looks like they wont get much from those teams if any. So why is that even point when he is sonsidering signing for them staright up and leaving Toronto for nothing to these teams? On the other hand? They could get back picks here and more of them and young players in return or good players. and he gets a full max contract. He is taking a paycut to go to the other teams while signing with Wade and Lebron elsewhere is my understanding because they all arent giving teams sign and trades too. Its all signings straight up and their former teams get nothing and they all take a paycut from what I understand. All the worst or least pucrative ways to me than just Bosh taking the Rockets sign and trades for the full money and Johnson too while their former teams get back players and picks. This is the optimal deal for the players and the agents and organizations. Rockets have the best deal out of everyone. Its not even close either.
misspelled lucrative. Rockets have the best sign and trade option of any team. The best contract possible for these guys? Signa nd trade and not straight up signings. Best possible for their teams? Rockets. Lots of young talesnt and picks.
Neither Bosh or Johnson are worth the max. Bosh can help,but I'm totally opposed to giving up too many assets for him. I also recognize that Toronto will try to get the most out of us,despite their weak bargaining position.
I disagree about Bosh, who is a max player (not my opinion... he'll get the max), but I agree about Johnson. If we could get Johnson for a contract similar to Martin's, then sure, especially if we could somehow keep Kevin. More than that, at his age? Nuts, if you ask me. Just crazy.
No, Traded Player Exceptions do not work this way for teams under the cap. Larry Coon says that, if Chicago loses James Johnson (I think that's his name), the Bulls would be $4 million short of having space for 2 max FAs. Also, they would renounce all their existing exceptions to clear the max cap space possible. So, after getting rid of Johnson, they can sign the first max player just using cap space. To get that second max player, they would have to trade for him, and find a way to include a $4 million player. I don't think there is another way for them to get a 2nd max player. Larry coon said "Soon" on Twitter today in response to this question about Chicago: "How come you haven't written a piece debunking that the Bulls will have space for 2 max?" Anyhow, they will not end up with a huge TPE.
I think the risk reward is to much on the risk side and not enough on the reward side. Like I stated in my previous post, I think Bosh is going to follow either Wade and or Lebron. If we trade away Martin and assets to over pay Joe Johnson without getting Bosh, it completely takes away what we were trying to do with this team. Now if Morey is 100 % sure we get Bosh with Johnson then I say lets do it. if not I would rather keep Martin and use our assets to better ourselves at another position. SG is the least of our worries. Plus Martin will make about 6-7 million less than Johnson over the next 4 years.
Give Daryl & co. a little credit. I doubt they would pull the trigger and trade for Johnson w/o a "promise" or "commitment" of some sort by Bosh.
But, why would Johnson agree to sign with the rockets in that situation? He is wanted by some teams (e.g., mavs, knicks). What would John feel that the rockets go after him only because they want Bosh?!
You have it backwards. TORONTO would be getting the Traded Player Exception, not Chicago. The Traded Player Exception is not something that the under-the-cap team already has. It is GENERATED when an outgoing player is traded and less salary comes back. In this case, it would be $0 to $4 million. That would generate a Traded Player Exception of anywhere from $12.5M to $16.57M for the Raptors. Everything Larry Coon said is true (it usually his, as he is the salary gap guru), but you just had the teams backwards as far as the exception was concerned.
