Which players do you not want the Rockets to pick ?

Dr. Robert...what planet are you from. Mihm, no desire? Which hole did you pull that out of? I suggest you wipe it a little better the next time before you let it go.

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In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.

 

Haven, no disrespect taken, after all it all just our opinions well articulated disagreements are cool. Still don't get HP view of Fizer either (it is like we are talking about different players), but there is plenty of time to edjumcate him.

I won't argue that the Toronto shouldn't have done the trade (I actually think both teams made mistakes in the deal), but I think the point that Antonio Davis was able to fetch a top 5 pick is still valid. (Actually I checked again and it was the 4th pick!!). Davis is a center with good all-around skills--but he was a 31 year old back-up as well. There had also been talk about PJ Brown, a similar to Davis 30+ good all around big buy, being the meat of a Francis trade. If these decent older all around 6' 11"+ players are worth a top 4 pick, it should be no brainer that a younger version of one is worth at least that or better.

As for the draft depth, I think last years draft is deeper than this years draft (unless about 4 more players declare early). I don't think we have the quality after the 4 spot that last year had in Wally, Rip, Miller, Marion, Terry and Magette for example. Again though, this could change quickly with a few players decisions.


[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited May 08, 2000).]

 

Sir...

If you guys like Fizer, don't worry about what I say, because I have a miserable track record predicting PFs. My points are more about praising Kenny Thomas than knocking Fizer. And to remind everyone that only about 2-3 power forwards per year rise to the NBA challenge. I think KT did that.

I have one parting question though. Did you ever see Fizer's teammates push him aside for a rebound? I did, several times in two tourny games. I didn't like that.

 

Well Iowa State as a team did awefully well on the boards (especially well considering Fizer was the only guy taller than 6' 5") . I agree Fizer didn't look as aggressive as you would think on the glass, but he always seemed to be in great position and I never saw Fizer's opponent push him around or get a board on him. There have been some fine position rebounders in the NBA as well, Oakley immediately comes to mind. Fizer reminds me a lot of Oakley (terrific floor sense, understanding of leverage in body positioning)--except with a young LJs athleticsm. Some of the younger posters may not know this, but Larry Johnson (who most say is 6' 5 1/2") at one time was a load to handle because of his rare strength and quickness.

Rip has been disappointing so far, but it is too early to judge him (I would say this for most other rookie guards except Francis and Miller too--for example, Avery, Terry, V. Cummings, and Davis might be OK). Like Rip, Ray Allen didn't have such a great first year (Kerry Kittles looked better at the time), but has steadily improved each year (not trying to make a UConn comparison, just a young 2 guard comparison.

HP, I haven't been good at drafting forwards myself (how could we pass up this young 2 guard(Minor) for this lanky Horry small forward), but one of us surely is due to be right about Fizer I am not trying to knock KT either, but I think comparing Fizer to him, is a lot like comparing Brand to KT. A couple of posters for a while was saying KT would be just as good as Brand, and I didn't (still don't) buy that. Too me Fizer is just a class above athletically (above KT, not Brand however) that can't be discounted.



[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited May 08, 2000).]

 

Ok, i know this has nothing to do with the Draft, but whats up with Isiah Rider, cant we pick him up i mean he is a free agent and i think he would be a nice fit to the Rockets offence, plus if there is any coach that can tame a player, it is Rudy T.

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No. Rider is a cancer.

And no, Fizer will be a bust.

I'd rather have Fizer than Rider, though, skill be damned.

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First, some stats:

College Reb/40Min for some of the top power forwards in recent drafts:

13.10 - Elton Brand
12.90 - Danny Fortson
12.00 - Robert Traylor
11.98 - Kenyon Martin
10.58 - Kenny Thomas
10.56 - Othella Harrington
10.36 - Jason Caffey
10.36 - Etan Thomas
9.76 - Corliss Williamson
9.56 - Marcus Fizer

My point, I think, is fairly obvious. Marcus Fizer has a track record as a below average rebounder on a team that didn't have any other great rebounders. He will be a poor rebounder in the NBA.

Yes, he is a great scorer. Yes, he has that gritty determination that makes everyone feel he is really trying hard. And, if the team who drafts him features him as its primary offensive threat, he may even win rookie of the year.

But guess what: I still don't want him as my power forward. He is a below average rebounder, too short to be a great interior defender, too slow lateraly to be a great perimiter defender and his game is too polished already to get much better. At first look he seems like a million dollar jem, but look closer. You will see the miriad flaws which will relegate him to second tier status at best.

By the way, this means that this is the guy I don't want the Rockets to pick.

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Curly,

My hole is the Austin American Statesman. That's right, the sports editorial page comes right out of my a**.

But he might lack the passion for the game that means hours upon hours in a gym, more hours in the weight room and a mean streak longer than Mihm himself. One NBA scout said Mihm's heart "bleeds Kool-Aid." - Kirk Bohls

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Dr Robert,

Loren Woods is 7 foot. Chenowidth is 7 foot. Both were killed when they tried one on one defense. He got the ball, faded away, and shot it softly off the backboard.

The lob was used against the zone in which Mihm's man fronted him and another played him on the weakside. I always consider a double team a victory since someone is open.

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"You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman

 

Dr Robert,

Have you been going to gregory gym at 6:00 the past 3 years? I haven't either, but i have friends that are in ROTC at UT. Mihm is there working out by himself by doing shooting drills or working out when they get there.

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"You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman

 

Kirk Bohls...enough said

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In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.

 

You know that Charles Barkley and that Larry Johnson are just too short to have NBA careers. I am sure plenty of scouts thought these guys will be busts too. (As I said above, I think the Barkley comparison is actually quite a stretch--there has never been a basketball player quite like Barkley, but comparing Fizer to young and quite effective Larry Johnson is quite reasonable, IMO.)

If Fizer is such a poor rebounder, on such a small team, how come they did pretty well rebounding as a team(they beat MSU--the best in the nation-too)?? My reasoning would be because Fizer and others were great at positioning. You also have to consider Fizer has a better outside game than any of the players mentioned at that stage of their careers. That also could have something to do with his personal lower #'s.

BTW-I suspect Dennis Rodman's, Van Horn's, D. Marshall's, A. Walker & Abdur-Rahim's college rb#s are not that indicative of their pro rebounding (all of them this year were above a respectable 8.0). Likewise I think some great rebouding 4s like Webber, LJ(before his back injury), McDyess, K. Malone, and Coleman pulled down around 9 or 10 per game in college. Yes better than Fizer by a noticable, though modest 1.5-3 per game--then again they didn't have his outside game either.

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chris mihm is the biggest stiff in the draft. he was just so much bigger than everyone else in the Big 12 last year and he got off against them. but when he playe the big dogs like pfizer(he's not even that big), he got ABUSED. Did you not see what swift and jabbari smith did to him in the tourney?? just face it there aren't going to be too many centers that he will be much bigger than in the NBA. and on top of that he's not very athletic.. he's very slow.. i do agree that he's pretty fundamentally sound and has a nice soft touch....but i still think this guy will be the biggest bust in this year's top five.... and i can see some team picking him up just cuz he's 7 feet tall........

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I agree Fizer kicked his ass. He is more developed now than Mihm. He has a great speed advantage. As far as Swift and Jabari go, he had the flu in the LSU game.

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"You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman

 

LJ was more athletic than Fizer ever dreamed of being. I think Fizer is like a poor man's LJ, who in turn is a poor man's Barkley.

Not exactly who I want on my team . His shot is alright, but not spectacular, and I don't think there's much reason it'll get much better-I think he's reached his peak. He doesn't have the athleticism or skill to improve much more.

Fizer will be a bust in the top 5 picks, a reach at the 6-10... I think he deserves mid 1st round. I think he'll be a career 10 and 6 player.

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I just want to make it clear that I am not an pessimist that picks out good players like Mihm and tries to fault them. I can honestly say though that Mihm has never impressed me in the 30 or so games that I have seen him play in. On the flip side, I saw a total of one quarter of Steve Francis playing in college and he blew me away.

There are plenty of things that I see in Mihm that would hinder him from having a good NBA career. Just to give an idea of how lacking I think his game is, I would choose Muoneke over Mihm despite the fact that his senior year was a horrible let down based on his junior year performance. I think it had to do with Barnes' style, and that freedom will allow him to be an excellent NBA player.

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Haven...

Well, applying the "6 Degrees of Separation Law", RocketPimp can really compare himself to Barkley!!!!

1. RocketPimp is a poor man's Heypartner
2. Heypartner is a poor man's Troy Berry (HS 6'3 star)
3. Troy Berry is a poor man's Torrie Andrews (Rice U 6'6 star)
4. Torrie Andrews is a poor man's Marcus Fizer
5. Marcus Fizer is a poor man's LJ
6. LJ is a poor man's Barkley

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 10, 2000).]