quinnolivarez, good thread. I agree pretty much with all of your points. DD, I TOTALLY disagree with you in regards to Scola HAVING to be the centerpiece of any Bosh trade. I don't see Scola being moved at all. If Toronto trades Bosh, then that means they are "starting over" and really have no use for a high salary 30 year old Scola. All they care about are draft picks and young prospects (Hill + 1st rounders package we can send them). I like Hill. I like Budinger. But you have to give to get. Bosh is the best talent available on the market. And he would be perfect in Adelman's system.
You may very well be right....I could see Hill going in that regards. However, IMO, Bosh is not going to come to Houston, he would have to WANT to come here, and that is not happening. In fact, I could not see any big named free agent coming to Houston as long as Yao Ming's situation is up on the air....... Because of that, we may overpay for a player that doesn't deserve the max, say someone like Joe Johnson.......but to me, Morey is too smart for that.....I just don't think we will be landing Bosh or any of the other big named free agents. I would love Bosh, but giving up too many other pieces, would be a mistake IMO. And again, it is not happening anyway. DD
I agree with this as well. Personally, I think we stand pat... use our draft pick in some way to trade up or down or just pick the best guy. And when the trade deadline comes along we make a move. If Yao comes back and can give us 25 minutes a game and just be a solid rotation player... I think when the trade deadline comes along we'll be battling for one of the bottom 4 playoff spots and we can be buyers for a crappy team trying to unload a star player. 15 million in expirings, extra picks and hopefully some young guys... we're set to make that type of trade. By then everyone will have already used their bullets trying to scrap up the FAs this offseason.
It's amazing how little teams get back, when they have a player that will not be resigned the next year. They will lose their player anyway, so they are just looking to get something. I remember back when their were rumors that the Kings were trading Artest. Many people assumed we would need to give up Brooks, Landry, and Scola. We give up Bobby Jackson and Donte Greene(28) for Artest. Looking at past trades where a free agent is about to walk. It doesn't look good. The teams ended up getting back maybe a draft pick and some roleplayers.
I agree that the chances of getting Bosh are not high. We have the assets to make Toronto interested, but yes, it is all about Morey convincing Bosh this is the place to be. The Rockets will draft the best player available this June. And will then go into FA trying to get Bosh. If the Rockets don't get Bosh then they will move onto plan B. Whatever that is. And I agree that the Rockets won't "panic" and over pay someone else if they don't get Bosh. They will just move on to the next target and continue to juggle assets and add talent to help now and in the future.
Artest is no Chris Bosh though. Artest makes the MLE (and he's admittedly underpaid), Bosh is going to be making the max. And a lot of it has to do with demand. He's going to have 5-6 teams on his "list" and then it's just a matter of which team offers the best deal. I'm sure Bosh would strike down some of the more major deals if they are losing too much talent. I think that Bosh could potentially go to a team for like 1 first rounder if it's a team that they didn't have to take salary from like Miami or New Jersey or New York. A team like Houston though? I've said before... they aren't going to take on 15 million dollars in expirings just to get 1 pick and a bench player like Buddinger.
I think the possibility of Bosh coming here is certainly suspect, however, that was not the point. We can wax philosophically all day and make false diagnoses on whether or not he's coming, but my goal was to point out the reality of the situation in the event he does [possibly] come, and to point out the problems with the dissidence towards Bosh.
This would be the case if the Rockets were the only ones bidding on Bosh. Since we know they aren't, the Rockets would have to put together a package that would beat anything else that may be offered for his services. Remember that Bosh supposedly has a list of teams he would be willing to play for. And neither do All-Star PFs.
championship teams are made up of vets is a pretty ignorant statement, and being from houston you should know that first hand. I am pretty sure cassel, horry, and the rest of our support on our championship teams in the 90s were all pretty young. how long was tim duncan in the league before he won a title? Bynum, Ariza, and a lot of the other guys on the lakers last year weren't what you would consider "vets" Minus Shaq a few years back, the whole heat team was fairly young as well. My point is that just because a player is a rookie or young doesn't mean they aren't ready for playoff basketball. Would you rather a vet that has been tested in the playoffs and failed or someone who is untested? Just because something is unknown doesn't mean it is not there. As far as the thread on the whole, I agree Bosh is a solid player, but he is not a max-contract player in my opinion. A max contract player should at least be able to lead his team to the playoffs in the east. Don't give me that crap on he has no one on his team, he had Turgolu (sp) from the Magic join up, plus lebron & wade have led there teams to the playoffs in the past without any help. A max-contract player is a player like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Nash, etc.... Bosh is a good star in this league, but he has showed no signs of being a superstar in this league. At the very best he could be a Gasol kind of guy (who is a great player, but cannot carry a team). I say if Wade or Lebron want a sign and trade and a max contract to come here, of course. If Bosh signed for less, than sure. Other than that, there aren't any free agents worth a max contract in my opinion. Don't get caught up in the offseason hype. Our best bet is see what Yao can do with a supporting cast that we have specifically built around him (strong athletic defenders, spot up shooters etc.). Good thread though, just because I disagree with some of the points doesn't mean it wasn't well thought out
Toronto got a draft pick for T-Mac, a max free agent. Detroit got Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace(a throw-in) for Grant Hill, a max free agent. It works for Houston also. Houston traded Michael Dickerson and Othella Harrington, and some pg(Price?) for Francis, when he complained about playing for the Grizzlies. Houston traded Thorpe for Drexler, after he asked for a trade.
Turkoglu didn't help at all. After he signed a $50+ million contract for the largest payday of his career, he gave up. He threw the team under the bus. Instead of 18-20 pt Turkoglu, they got 10 pt Turkoglu and fans burning up their phones with sightings of him at bars on game nights.
That was because the player was traded to a team with cap space. I've already said... if Bosh just says "I want to go to Miami". They would probably get a similar deal yes. But to Houston? They would have to take 15 million in expirings at the very least. Toronto would have to pay 15 million to Battier and Jeffries for a season in order to take on maybe a pick and a guy like Buddinger. They would just say thanks but no thanks. And Bosh couldn't bluff Toronto by threatening to sign here because we don't have cap space. Remember Shaq to Miami? That took Odom and Butler, both borderline all-stars. McGrady was had for Francis and Mobley. Drexler was had for Thorpe. AI was had for Andre Miller. Not exactly scrubs were dealt for a lot of these guys. Not sign and trades I know, but in all of these situations the teams had to take back salaries.
I am sorry but I don't visit this forum as often this time of year. I hear a lot of talk that we are definitely going to make a run at Chris Bosh. Even Clutch seems to believe this is so. Is there any verifiable source that proves that we are exactly going to pursue Bosh or is this just a popular assumption?
agentkirb87, Houston doesn't need to send Jeffries and Battier to trade Budinger and a pick. They can get it done with only Jeffries. Bosh qualifies for max salary of $16,568,907.60. Houston can acquire up to 125% of outgoing salary plus $100k. Houston $13,175,126=$16.83 mil (125% x $13,175,126 + $100,000) Toronto Houston can trade. $6,883,400 Jeffries $2,500,000 Andersen $2,301,000 Hayes $780,871 Budinger $854,389 Harris(non-guaranteed?) Total outgoing salary: $13319660 If Harris is non-guaranteed like James White was in the Denver trade, Toronto would be taking on $12.5 mil in salary. Rockets can include $3 mil in cash. 1) The cost to Toronto is $9.5 mil ($12.5 mil salary-$3 mil cash), if they keep the cash. 2) If Toronto decides to use the $3 mil buy out Hayes and Andersen to let them resign with the Rockets, it would be $7.7 mil($12.5mil-$4.8mil) in salary obligations and they would free up 2 spots. The $7.7 mil would be for Jeffries and Budinger. Rockets giving them the 2012 1st round pick could be interesting. They could do a pseudo swap. Buy Toronto's 2012 2nd round pick for $3 mil in a seperate transaction, and give Toronto the 2012 NY pick. If Toronto isn't interested in another 1st round pick, they would be selling their lower pick to us to get more cash to offset Jeffries and Budinger's salaries. They would be committed for only $4.7 mil then. That's not bad at all for roleplayers like Budinger and Jeffries.
I am confused why so many people on the forum want Bosh,he won't be the fit person to take this team to the champion.
If, and a big if we get Bosh, my concern is how well is Bosh/Yao combo gonna work when they're both on the floor. From what I see, Bosh needs mucho space for his game, all isolation plays back in Toronto. AB, Bud, Battier, Ariza, Martin etc can spread out to give Bosh room to work his isolation game. What's our game plan when both Yao and Bosh are on the floor....
