Hatden, thats my point about head to head. Fan boys like yourself always bring up yao vs howard as validation, but yall never mention how dalembert shut yao down or being brutalized by marc gasol. Its selective memory loss and its used by the fan boys alot.
Yao struggled against the Jazz, sure, but I think some people here doesn't consider his improvments on the last 2 years. Forget the stats. The Yao we saw last year is not the same Yao we saw against the Jazz. Like Pau, Yao has also improved in key aspects of the game that you normally get with the years. Experience, self-confidence, maturity, killer&winner instinct... I wouldn't have talked about the Yao of 2007 as an elite player in the league, but Yao has grown up thanks to the bad times suffered and the experience gained. Like O'Neal did, or Hakeem, etc. It was clear, especially with him, that he would need some time to reach his max level, and so has been, but don't talk about "his career" because he has gone through many phases in his career. It's evolution, baby.
13ppg 7.5 rebs on 45% fg vs philly last year. www.basketball-reference.com Really my point was head to head doesnt determine the better player. D-Will kills paul head to head and until this year, people always considered paul the better player. Dream and robinson used to play to a draw during the regular season, but when the stakes were high, dream destroyed robinson.Regular season head to head doesnt mean alot when talking about who is better.
People seem to have a long lasting bad impression when the team loses, regardless of facts. I agreed with you. Yao totally owned all the jazz's big men in those series. If anybody actually watched and remembered the fact correctly. Yao is probably the only bright spot in the series against the jazzholes. He worked his butt off getting hacked any where closed to 10 feet, smothered by the thugs like Okur. Even when I watched Yao play the jazz series, I felt tire just by watching him getting hacked without a whistles, still he managed to those 20+ points, just by pure effort & determination. Don't know if anybody remembers, just see all that scars and scratch marks left by the jazzholes on Yao's arm and neck when they zoomed in when Yao was making a free throw.
Dalembert's stats in those games - 4 ppg 9 reb. I agree that head to head stats don't determine the better player. It simply means that if ORL was playing HOU in the finals, I'd want Yao instead of DH.
i've been watching the lakers and the teams in the playoffs have been determined to stop pau more than kobe. thunder doubled pau and let kobe play 1-on-1 jazz doubled both suns went into a zone to prevent pau from getting touches (and he didn't). that was why kobe went bananas. kobe may still get all the attention for the lakers, but pau is getting just as many double teams offensively, if not more. remember, when kobe was out during the reg. season, the lakers went like 5 or 6-1 v. the better teams in the L (only loss to the celtics i think--a 1 point loss) pau is putting up 20 and 11 on 57% shooting on just 13 shots a game. offensively, yao is a better pure 1-on-1 offensive player in the post. but overall, pau is better--can shoot the outside, drive, pass... the last game v. the suns was his FIRST bad game all postseason. that's how consistent he has been .
who doesn't? dwight howard is overrated as an offensive player. you cannot build around him offensively.
I am going to disagree with everything highlighted, especially last one. Gasol was a non-factor in Games 4 and 5, while he only averaged mere 6.83 rebounds against the Suns. Certainly was not perfect in the Thunder series. He does get blocks, but he does not seem to keep aggressive offense out of the paint. Teams do not double team him that often, or as much as you think, especially not at the same volume Yao is. Yes, Gasol can pass out of double teams, though he is not as good at attacking them as Yao is and expected to sometimes. 20 points on 13 shots and 11 rebounds on 57% shooting, that's not bad. But, those are not like Shaq numbers or even all that different from what Yao does. Though, Yao averages about those same numbers in about 4-5 less minutes. Career wise, he is still trailing Yao Ming in scoring, rebounding, block shots, FG%, PER rating, defensive PER rating, and is allows more points per opposing player. Also, Gasol has never had 20 point and 10 rebound season in the same season and topped at 20.8 ppg a game. Yao has topped that 3 times. This is also the first season, Gasol averaged at least 10 or more rebounds in his entire career. Based on the statistics of their last seasons, Gasol is not a better rebounder than Yao.
You know you are being a revisionist, right. M.Gasol, last season against the Rockets averaged a mere 12.5 points on .447 percent shooting and 7.3 rebs, but he did have 12 blocks in 4 games. Memphis win two games against us, but not because Marc Gasol. It looks like Yao outplayed him in all four meetings. Also, I do not recall that version of Gasol having too many outstanding games against Yao, or even brutalizing him in allowing him to put up 20 and 10 against the Grizzlies. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mingya01/gamelog/2009/ http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mingya01/splits/2009/ Dalembert shutting down Yao, it has happened, but not as long-standing as you express in your post. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=dalemsa01&p2=mingya01
You know what's cool about having multiple definitions? You get to pick which one fits the context it's used in. You can argue about semantics all you want, but my point remains. We're debating skill, health is not a skill, end of story. I've yet to see you post a rebuttal that has anything to do with his skill, which begs the question: have you even see Yao play? Do you even care? I like how both replies to my post completely missed the point and instead decided to focus on one word of my post. It's not that hard to differentiate a discussion on skill from one on building a championship team.
What skill does Yao possess which Gasol does not? I can't think of any, other than being 80+% from the free throw line.
i never said gasol is better than yao career-wise (obviously he isn't). but it's hard to find another big man playing better than pau right now. and as of right now, he is the best big man in the L, particularly on the offensive end. as of right now, yes, pau is better than yao. but that's b/c yao is injured and is not playing. but you also have to admit pau fits the triangle offense like a glove. and he would fit adelman's offense like a glove too.
I remember a year or two back in the regular season when Gasol played 40+ minutes, guarded Yao most of the time in single coverage, and the Lakers beat the Rockets in Houston. Yao didn't have a great game either. Not sure if that's been mentioned or not in this thread.
if it was up to me, i choose gaso lto play under adelman in a heartbeat. he can play fast or slow. with yao and the players we have now, we have to slow it down to accomodate yao (and who knows how he is after the surgery). pau can play whatever style you want to play. sure he's soft, but which big man isn't soft nowadays (for the most part).
I think they're both really similar skillset-wise, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. If you think Pau is better than Yao, I'd like to see you go a little deeper than "lol Pau's better cuz Yao-dnp".
No idea how anyone can say Yao gets single-covered, in that series or any other. He's one of the most double and tripled players in the league, definitely the most doubled player on either team whenever he plays. And a lot of that "single coverage" is actually a second player keeping an eye on his man but staying close enough to collapse on Yao the second he gets the ball.
