It's good up until a point where your like Pierce and you lunge at defenders left and right. It's okay to take a shot when the defender is up in the air coming towards you and getting a foul call... But when the defender jumps sideways AWAY from the offensive player and then he jumps towards him just to get a foul call, that's just cheap...
I couldn't agree with this more. I absolutely hate it with a passion when Lowry gets his man in the air, the defender is gliding past him to the side, and Lowry jumps a couple of feet SIDEWAYS for the contact. Arrrgh! Thats such a garbage way to play. Thats today's NBA . The old school way of getting the defender in the air, taking a dribble to get under them if you need to, and then jump straight up into your shot I got no problem with.
the offensive player initiates the contact all the time. The offensive player initiates the contact on questionable charge/block calls, too. That's not what this is about. Kyle Lowry will initiate contact with a hell of a lot of people on moves to the bucket. If the defender is out of position and moving/not occupying his own space, it's poor defense and a foul.
If the offensive player jumps into the defender, it should be an offensive foul, plain and simple. These manipulations of the rules is what is killing the NBA, it's becoming unwatchable
It's probably both smart and cheap. It's only smart because the players know that the refs will give them free throws if they can get their man in the air and initiate some contact. Ultimately, the object of the game is to score more points than your opponent. If the refs are going to award your team free throws for making that play, then it is hard to argue that players shouldn't make this play simply for the reason that it cheapens the game. That being said, IT CHEAPENS THE GAME. I think it is one of the cheapest moves in basketball for a couple of reasons. First of all, because the refs haven't been calling it properly. A lot of the calls in the playoffs have been plays where the defender is already back on the ground and basically set and the shooter really initiates most of the contact. The real reason I hate this play is that because it is not a move that a player would make in the interest of making a shot from the field. The only reason they make this play is because it is a chance to get two easy free throws. Basketball wasn't designed so that players could shoot free throws, it was designed so that players could use a combination of grace, athleticism, and skill to put a ball through a hoop. When the teams are playing with this as their only goal, the game is at its best and memorable plays happen. These are the kinds of plays that kids go out in their driveway and try to imitate after a game. When you start rewarding players for doing anything other than this, it makes the game ugly and less watchable. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need the refs or free throws, and everyone would play the game with integrity. This isn't realistic but teams will cheat to win if you let them, so the rules and refs have to be in place to prevent teams from pushing the rules and cheating the other team. Think about a game of pickup basketball at the gym. You don't ever see anyone trying to pull this move when people are playing for fun, because it's a low percentage shot and it cheapens the game. Best case scenario is that you draw the foul, but even if you do, you only get the ball back. No points or free throws are awarded. If someone kept doing this, he would probably get frozen out, but he's taking the fun out of the game. In short, the game would be a whole lot better to watch if the refs stopped rewarding players every time they get a guy to jump a little 25' from the basket.
I couldn't agree more, it's so Stocktonesque in the same way that he used to charge right at people in order to create fouls. Even the Reggie Miller kick-people-while-they-defend was hella annoying. Refs shouldn't be part of the game and I hate it when players try to make them an integral part of it. Calls should only be made when defenders initiate the contact.
Every franchise player does this. Barkley looked the funniest when he did it because his pump fakes were SOOO slow.
Kobe hitting the shot after the foul waves right back and i'm not a Kobe fan...can't stand him or the lakers.
If you are playing a pick up game. . . and some joker does it . . it is weak sauce and a b*tch move. Esp when they have no shot. [Kind of like the joker that picks up his dribble. Then intentionally moves the ball to your hand and drops it so he can rekindle his dribble. yea, technically I 'knocked the ball out his hand' but in reality it is a bunch of bull*****] Rocket River
Even if the defender does not go straight up, it is not necessarily a defensive foul. If he jumps to the side of the player, for example. The defender has a right to come back down into open space if it was open when he jumped, just like the offensive player does in the charge/block situation. If the offensive player jumps sideways into the path of the defender, that should be an offensive foul.
It pisses me off when PP does it. Especially at the 3pt line. I know its coming everytime but it seems like the players always fall for it. I think its cheap when ur not even tryna make the shot, ur jus lookin for contact ala PP.
Normally I think it's ok, but it bothers me when Pierce does it. Pierce waits for the hit, then waits for the defender to fly passed him then puts up a jump shot and the refs give him continuation. That's BS
yes. when they not even trying to make a shot. . . just trying to literally jump into a guy . Also . . Hack a Howard is WACK TOO. AGAIN. . . if I am in the gym . . and I beating my man repeatedly. Until he simply start grabbing me to stop me. . . that is weak! So is Hack a Howard. yea. . . technically fouling to prevent getting beat is in the rules but it is still bull***** Rocket River
i'll agree with you there. But to start making judgment calls on when it was the player's intent to jump into the defender and when the defender was late to his spot...or when the offensive player's natural inclination was to make a sideways move and the defender just happened to be there.. all of a sudden, you're asking the refs to make too many subjective calls in a split second. The calls are subjective enough as it is, and I think this would take it to a new level and cause even more questionable calls
Irrelevant because NBA and pickup are two completely different games. There are a lot of "weak sauce" calls in the NBA that don't apply on hardcourt (or at the Y). The key, IMO, is that consistency rules and any defender dumb enough to leave his feet early defending a jumpshooter deserves to get called for the foul. If I were a team, I'd fine players $5,000 each time they did it and donate the proceeds to charity.
So you like when the players flop?? when the opposite player doesnt even touch him, but they flop with all the hands in the air? So if a player throws an elbow or a kick but the ref didnt see that, then it ok?
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bWiw60NusOY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bWiw60NusOY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object> i was so pissed when they didnt call it
I may be wrong, but if you start watching from 0:42, I think Brent traveled before Fisher made contact.
The only thing that pisses me off with the move is when the offensive player is shooting while being fouled, instead of getting fouled while shooting, which to me is a big difference. The ones by Pierce and even Tracy's one in his 13 points in 35 seconds are great example of the shooting while being fouled, in that basically put their head down, ram into the defender, bounce backward, and chuck up a shot. To me it is cheap, but when there's an exploit like this then the smart ones abuse it.
