This just reaffirms my position that we must be one of the most aggravating franchises to root for in the NBA, in that we are always poised to do damage but ALWAYS manage to pull the rug out from under ourselves. I mean, it's not like NYK where we know we'll suck, or PHX where we can at least hit the West Finals.... we lose in such a glorious fashion.. Anyway.. there's my self-sympathizing Rockets post for the month. Can't wait for the draft.
You know, this is true, but only up to a point. Mining the data is not a bad thing. It reminds me of the time when I was in college, and my roommate showed me this game called Othello. I had never played it before, so he showed me. It was easy, of course, but he kicked my butt every time. But the more I studied how the game worked, and kept analyzing it, all of a sudden I noticed something about the game, a 'statistic' if you will. And he clearly did NOT know about it. From that moment onward, I slaughtered him in that game, every time. It drove him nuts, because he couldn't figure out how he suddenly went from beating me every time to never being able to win again. And of course I never told him.. lol The point is, if you look and look, once in a while you will find something that no one else sees, and it gives you the 'fair advantage' as Tex Schramm used to say. So who knows? Maybe looking at all of these things in new ways and from all different angles WILL lead to your parade? We certainly all hope so.
Agree entirely. I like Morey a ton...and I think he's the right man for the job. But he's being crowned because of the MEANS....not the END. We've yet to see all this pan out to rings...or even being among the league's elite. And there's umpteen million reasons for that, a lot having to do with injury....which I totally get. And I'm not saying Morey has failed...or anything like that. simply that....let's save the accolades for something meaningful...something more than stacking up assets. If you stack up a ton of assets and they never find a way to win, that's not real interesting or entertaining to me.
I agree. It's just results that matter, not reasonableness. Besides, a GM can predict Yao's injuries at least as well as he could predict getting upside from a late first round-pick. We get the upside of Brooks breaking out; we should get the downside of Yao being on the shelf again. It is impressive, though, that we managed to get a mildly positive figure this season, despite having $40m on the injured list.
I just don't understand your definition of post season success. At worst, the Suns have been the 8th best team in the NBA ever since Steve Nash got there (6 yrs ago). This ranking is all about post season results. I personally would have them at 6, but 8 is fine. It's fine to say they haven't won a championship, but only 4 teams have during that span. 3 conference finals in the West is better than every WC team other than San Antonio, LA, and perhaps Dallas. Your argument would make much more sense if the Suns actually did perform like the Warriors. But your statements paint a broad stroke of failure like the Suns lose to all these strong playoff teams when the fact is the Suns are a strong playoff team. They haven't been a chapionship team, but few teams have had more success than the Suns ever since Nash got there...regular and post season.
It's a cliche that fast pace offensive team don't have success in the playoffs, and they are conveniently compared to Nellie's Warriors. This is a blind cliche without much real analysis of objective evidence.
According to Morey's symposium at MIT Sloan school, the scenario you describe is precisely the time that a team is most profitable. Mark Cuban and others explicitly said, winning a championship costs so much money that constant "rebuilding" is by far the most profitable model. The team is good enough and people hopeful enough that revenue is almost as good as a championship team (minus a handful of games) and the overall value of the franchise (for resale or w/e) keeps going up. A truly shrewd owner concerned first and foremost with his investment would keep his team at that level. Of course he wouldn't mind winning but wouldn't dramatically pay for that slight bump in value on his investment. As for OP, those stats are wrong because regular season wins and playoff wins are not valuated the same. For example 55 wins for Houston in the regular season every year in the mid 2000s cannot "buy" 4 solitary wins in the playoffs. In short, "playoff wins" cost dramatically more than regular season wins, and a true model would prorate the 2 and figure some sort of weighted average. It's like someone owns a fleet of 10 cars including Hyundais and Ferraris and for insurance purposes adds the total and divides by 10... now you have 5 ferraris and 5 hyundais insured for $40,000. Taint right. as Mark Twain said...
You young whippersnappers have proven too smart for me. I looked at that chart and my brain gave up after about three seconds. I have no clue what that chart is trying to say or why it is so "busy." I just want to win.
I want to use the lakers formula. I wanna know how they got gasol for brown,gasol brother,crittedon, and a couple of picks. I want to see that breakdown.
that's a formula i can get behind watching these teams play in the playoffs makes me miss the 90's sans 1992. also, rachel was freaking hot in the 90's on Friends. did you see the episode where she lost ross' monkey? seriously? ouch.
Excellent post - repped. I guess if we watch what he does with Yao we will get a better understanding of whether Les is a "Win at all costs" guy or a "Win, but make money" guy. I suspect it is the latter, and that is understandable. DD
Good post but my only thought with that would be that don't most owners of sports franchises can into the business more for entertainment value than anything else - it's almost a toy or pet business? In other words, if their primary concern was to make as much money as possible (yield the highest ROI), couldn't they have done something more profitable with the money than spend it on a sports franchise? If the answer to those questions is "yes", then you would have to think that most owners are less concerned about profit and really just want to win championships and are willing to sacrifice some profit to accomplish that. Perhaps some franchises across sports are truly profitable business ventures compared to non-sports-related alternatives but I wouldn't think that to be generally the case.
I just want to win, too. I don't want to talk about the lottery. I don't want to talk about who should start at PG. I don't want to talk about whether we really miss Carl Landry or not. I couldn't care less about who our backup center should be. You want Yao Ming to play fewer minutes? I don't care. I don't know why it matters our defense has suffered this past year. I just want to win - that's all that matters. As a matter of fact, just shut the board down until we win a title! There is nothing to discuss!!!! Said tongue-in-cheek... I'll have to look at the numbers, but from briefly glancing at that formula, it seems kind of silly.
Sure, its an ego thing, but they still don't want to lose their fortune that took a lifetime to build. It's like gambling. You know the house will eventually win and it's ultimately unprofitable. You still do it for the entertainment value, but you don't spend your life's savings on it.
this shows that is better to spend money wisely, than spend all the money that you can. quality is better than quantity
LOL. All the people who said, "I just want to win" sounds like the 6th grader who said his dream job was "billionaire." That's swell, sonny. But how are you gonna get that job?
What's to be proud about? So the front office is good with money, does that translate to better ticket prices? No it doesn't.
Just wondering, when is the last time the team with the best league record wins the championship? And why is the value of the wages is so important? The way I sees it, is getting the best player that is most important. Lakers last year, Celts the year before that shows hows its done. And both will be in the Finals again.
It's not that...it's that I'm tired of celebrating the MEANS to the END we haven't reached. We drown Morey with tons of praise about spotting value and stocking assets. Those are important things....and I do value them...and they are things I believe translate to winning teams. But I don't value those things more than winning as a fan; but I see a ton of that here. Ultimately, this team needs to win ON THE COURT. In the playoffs. When it matters....for me to join the rest of you in full tilt Morey love. No one cares about your formulas if they don't produce rings or championship contenders, even.
