ATW, I don't consider Mohammed PBUH infallible. The only thing I consider to know about Mohammed PBUH is what's in the Quran. So, whatever the Quran says about him, I use that as an example. I think I'm pretty clear about where you're going with this thread. Just in case I'm right, I'll clarify two things to you: - Key is what's INSIDE the Quran. - Another key is that I use it as an example. The word "role model" indicates pure imitation, which is not the idea here.
The request comes not from a desire to learn, gain understanding, or anything of the sort. IT comes from a desire to find ways and reasons to attack Islam. I'm not sure why anyone would earnestly respond. Mathloom if you started a topic on it I would be interested in reading and hearing the thoughts of others as well.
That sounds reasonable. What percentage of muslims do you think sees it the same way as you just described? Is that because you believe that the quran came directly from God? What would you respond to someone like me who basically thinks that both the quran and the bible are basically a collection of stories and wisdoms written down by some regular people? Perhaps that would derail the thread...I'd rather focus on Mohammed.
You are correct. That line of thinking functions on the base assumption that a depiction will certainly lead to idol-worship >> a base assumption which is confirmed in the Hadith books allegedly by the Prophet himself. Additionally, a lot of Muslims believe that it could lead to a form of racism whereby he will take on the features that the most dominant Muslim group see fit. So he would, for example, become increasingly white since whiteness was considered to be "beauty" thousands of years ago in the region. This would then somehow alienate non-white Muslims or make them obsessed with whiteness=good. The racism part is particularly important in the case of Islam because the Quran specifically holds itself out as being for all people while most Muslims consider that other books/messengers came for specific groups (e.g. Moses came for the Jews). For the Prophet Mohammed to lean towards any race would go against that. For him to appear in depictions even accurately as himself would, apparently, subconsciously lend some credibility to his race. According to Hadith, he spent a large chunk of his time preaching against tribalism, racism, ethnocentricism, etc and the Quran is extremely clear about the bad nature of those things as well. (I swear that's the short version lol) Hope that's helpful.
Are you trying to stifle discussion? Why are you so obsessed with following me around when I post that you don't even read what is in my post and thereby embarrass yourself, like when I posted the article about the veil controversy in the other thread and you responded like a minute later with some random crap so that it was entirely evident that you did not even bother to read the article?
Thanks Mathloom. When I try really hard, I can kind of see the rationale, even though it seems a bit far-fetched and outdated (what if Mohammed had lived during our time, he surely would not have been able to avoid being photographed, etc.). But why do you feel is this rationale apparently considered SO central to the religion that there are people willing to kill and to burn down embassies because of it? Would you agree that there are deeper underlying reasons than "just" the assumed prohibition of drawing the guy? Is the outrage about the cartoons rather an outrage about an overall feeling of being disrespected?
I am curious as to why people believe that Mohammad was talking to God? I ask the same thing of Christians, and it is just strage as to what drives faith. I personally believe in God, but I don't believe in any religion currently. DD
Hello, I'm a Muslim and if the OP or any other individuals (Cowboy) would like to get together for lunch or coffee to discuss the teachings of Muhammad or Islam, let me know.
Thanks. I'm a bit too far away from you for that, so if you could share your thoughts on the message board, that would be helpful.
1) I don't know exactly. Officially, 2-3%. Unofficially, maybe ten times that? Really no idea. It's growing rapidly though as more credible people speak up - especially in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. 2) Yes I do. I would respond by asking where you read it (which translation), if you found anything particularly wrong in/with it, and ultimately I'd tell you that I'm glad you read it and hope you learned something. Out of personal curiosity, I would always ask what you thought of the mentions of rain formation, embryo development, etc. Are you asking why I believe it's from God?
as an aside...this is how I view Christ...an example of what it is to be godly....and i fall dreadfully short.
wanna here something even wackier??? i think not only mohammed or jesus can talk to god...i think you can!!!! i just blew your mind!!!!
May I ask, is there a name for the form of Islam you follow? If it is 2-3 %, is the majority "stricter" than you in terms of a more literal adherence? An answer to your last question would be interesting, yes (I believe DD also asked this question). The other question I have is that I read some things about Mohammed's life that under today's standards one would probably not consider role model - like. I guess you will say that these are from the Hadith which you consider inaccurate?
Umm, technically they never spoke (according to Quran) though I could be mistaken. I'm always curious as to why the Prophet is the first person ever named Mohammad. Strange right?
You tell me how an illiterate merchant could come up with the Qur'an. The style of it far surpasses even Classical Arabic Poetry.
There's no name, which is kind of the point of it I can tell you of some people I share similar views with: Gamal Al Banna, Adnan Rifai, Abdul Hamid Al Ansari. Also, it's officially 2-3%. I say officially because the non-secular governments report it this way In reality is a far bigger number. The majority of Muslims are stricter in belief, but far less strict in practice - in practice, their focus is primarily on hijab, gender mixing and prayer. I'm assuming they are in Hadith, but I don't know. I'm guessing it's about his marriage to a very young bride? If that's it, then you're correct, I do not believe that happened. Frankly, I don't see the point in discussing it because there are hundreds of pages on the internet attacking it and hundreds defending it. No one will bring anything to the debate that's not mentioned in any of those pages. Why I believe is too big a question to be answered here honestly, I'll refrain from answering that one if you don't mind.
LOL - I believe anyone can talk to God, I just don't believe God has spoken back. Oh come on, just because some one can not read does not mean they are dumb, it just means they never learned. I mean tons of cultures passed down their traditions orally for centuries....many of the stories in the Bible are taken directly from other religions ....I suspect the same of the Quran. DD
I'm reasonably sure the argument is that God, being not "of creation", is not "in creation", and therefore has to communicate through intermediaries (angels). I remember reading somewhere that it was a significant issue of scholarly concern at one point.
Isn't it said that he told others and there had to be at least two witnesses in most cases and they wrote it down?
How do they know they were not actually devils or demons posing as Angels? Or that they were simply delusional, or had a tumor? Why should anyone take their word for it? There are tons of false prophets out there like David Koresh, Jim Jones, all the Egyptian Pharoes etc..etc..etc... The only difference I see is that these are the currently mass accepted religions.... DD
