She didn't say because of welfare the govt. owes her a living. That is also one woman, and not all of the poor. There are two women who are currently serving in congress who were single mothers, and on welfare. They used the welfare to educate themselves and are now successful members of congress. One could easily say that entitlements prepare people for successful congressional careers.
You simply cannot ignore the fact that in many families there are welfare recipients from generation to generation. Nothing is done to assist them in getting off of government assistance.
Thanks for the compliment. But I'm not trying to "humiliate" anybody here. What is being overlooked is that something very cool happened here. After all the acrimony, personal jibes and whatnot there was agreement and compromise. That's how this country needs to work. Maybe if there were more Timings in the Senate and fewer Daschles we'd be a lot further along on many fronts. Just my opinion though...
I will agree the system needs to do more to help them become self-sufficient. That's why I was so shocked that Bush was upset that some welfare recipients were going to College instead of going to work. I think self-improvement, job training, college educations etc. would be among the top things these people could do to make sure they get off and stay off of welfare.
Why have people use welfare to go to college when the same standard of living can be had while in school via the student loan program? There is nothing wrong with having people use an education financing scheme which requires repayment over the course of 10 years (longer if you consolidate) following graduation.
becuase u have to pay back loans and you don't welfare it is economically stupid to take loan when you can get a grant Rocket River
Full time students are ineligible for welfare. If that weren't the case you'd see every 18 year old frat boy in America on welfare. I had a roommate that was on publkic assistance for a very short time. He had been in the military and they shut down his base and discharged him. I roomed with him for less than a semester so I don't know how it turned out.
I didn't blame the income gap on poor civil rights reform, I showed that the civil rights movement has made no difference in closing the gap. Can't you read? You're consistently one of the most closed minded, neanderthal posters on this issue and you seem perfectly oblivious to that. Get a clue or something.
In 2000, young adults living in families with incomes in the lowest 20 percent of all family incomes were six times as likely as their peers from families in the top 20 percent of the income distribution to drop out of high school. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2002/droppub_2001/ Now this chart doesn't go back as far as the other chart I posted but I think it shows kind of a chicken and egg situation. Claiming that the income gap exists because of high school drop outs but then the poor, which blacks are disproportionately poor, are six times more likely to drop out as the rich. So it's a cycle. Blacks are disproportionately poor, drop out of school at higher rates, and remain poor. So you can say they're poor because they drop out but they're more likely to drop out if they're poor to begin with. Then again looking at the chart, why if Hispanics drop out at such dramatically higher rates is their wealth on par with blacks and their incomes higher?
People have every opportunity to help themselves in this country, and if they CHOOSE to do it, will make a better life for themselves. We do not need to skew the rules in favor of someones' skin color that is another form of segregation. Just make the playing field ocmpletely level and it will sort itself out in time. Legislation does not work, but education does. DD
Timing: In 1965, 100 years after the end of slavery, 68% of black children were born into 2 parent families. In 2000, 70% were born out of wedlock. Don't you think this shift has something to do with the socio-economic climate in the black community? Is this shift a result of slavery or racism? How would reparations or any other government program bring about a resurgence of the traditional 2 parent family structure?
Just something I noticed: Racial Threads + Conservative Posters + Timing = Very Looooong Threads with ridiculously high post counts! (Also very interesting and heated threads if you have the time to read through all the posts)
I have kind of a tangential question. Why do graphs/surveys that have hispanic as a category also say things like black/non-hispanic or white/non-hispanic?
http://www.ed.gov/pubs/YouthIndicators/indtab11.html In 1970, 8.1% of white households were single parent and that figure was at 18.7% in 1992. That's a rise of 130%. In 1970, 33.6% of black households were single parent and that figure was 56.5% in 1992. That's a rise of 68%. (hope that math is all correct) So while you bring up a serious issue, the rate of single parent families in the black community is actually declining in comparison with whites. As for causes to why the rate is so high in the black community, well that's a great question. I suppose some could fall back on there being more black men in prison than college. I'm sure it's more complicated than that but seems like part of the problem there. I don't know if there is a link there to slavery or racism which is all the more reason why a study is so important. I think I'd be a little hesitant to see the government involved in family building though.
Here's what bothers me. If the solution is reforming education to give students in the lower socio-economic strata a chance at a real and meaningful education, then why do we need a study? Let's just do it...yesterday would be just fine.
Here's what bothers me. If the solution is reforming education to give students in the lower socio-economic strata a chance at a real and meaningful education, then why do we need a study? Let's just do it...yesterday would be just fine. No kidding. Plus you take "race" and "reparations" out of the equation which takes the political-firestorm out of it and makes it much more easily supportable by both parties. The problem is that the majority of education funding comes from the state, whereas [in my opinion] this has to be pushed at the federal level. One of many reasons I would love more federal involvement in education. What we have right now is poor districts have lower property taxes and thus continue to have lower funding. Poor stay poor; rich stay rich.
I'd be interested to see a poll/study on African-Americans and how income affects their opinions re: reparations.
point taken, though I was actually referring to the opportunity to go to college to get the necessary pieces of paper to get the better jobs... I can't speak for the conditions in the inner city schools since I haven't been there. but everyone seems to agree that the schools need work. I won't argue that. I really believe that *anyone*, no matter where they come from can and should do whatever it takes to get the good education that state colleges can provide you with. If you have to take classes at night (like I do) or jump thru hoops to get the financial aid necessary for the poor to afford schools....everyone can and should do it. Thats all I was sayin...
Anyone can go to school if they want to go. I've never heard of HCC turning away students becuase of their race. With pell grants and student loans, this "education is for whites only" is BS. Join the national guard and they pay for your tuition along with a monthly check. The military has many programs for those that join. You just have to work for it. To me, this whole reparations argument is supported by alot of non-workers who want the world handed to them without the effort. And its not just blacks with this disease, you have some dip sheit whites who think they're deserving becuase their white. Its all about effort, scrafice and many years of hard work to sniff success. Look at how many openings there are for nurses and their pay scale. You think a hospital is turning down blacks for jobs? You spend 4 years in nursing school, and your starting at 40K. Whats the problem? Only those that are hungry enpough are taking the courses and getting the jobs. There not spending their nights in the bars trying to mack. Or online fighting for reparation checks. White people don't hold black people down, black people hold themselves down. Someones always to blame for their problems, and those within the race that try to rise up are ridiculed for being uncle toms. Its amazing to see a blacks succeed, not because of racism, but the sheit they recieved from their own people while struggling to success. The minute you start taking responsbility for your success and failures, and realize being told "no" happens to everyone, thats the minute you realize its not becuase of your race and to just keep trying at whatever your trying to succeedb at. Anyways, however you choose your life is up to you. If you sit back for the rest of your life wiaiting for someone to hand you something, your going to loose something valuable down the road you will never be able to replace once you do gain some more common sense. And thats time. You will never be able to recapture that time lost arguing, waiting, hating, and blaming when you could have been studying, working and investing. You choose the road you weant to go down partners. Just don;t blame the white man if you choose wrong
I can't help it that I get too bored to confront these issues seriously. Have you ever seen a bbs post that shaped the world? Have you ever seen a bbs post cited on Nightline? dewdewtoodewdewdew... Hello everyone. This is Ted Koppel. Tonight we discuss how relatively uninteresting basketball geeks determined the solution to all of life's problems..dewdewtoodewdewdew... Oh now you're being pedantic. Thanks. BTW, in art school, did they tell you (1000 years * .25 (oppression)) > ( 300 years * .6 (oppression)). I want the 70 points of difference calculated by a multiplier (to be determined later) and deposited into my Zurich account #8675309. What was the specific reason the West Africans were kept together? Okra? Mmmm.... Do you think the Moors were a bunch of boy scouts running around through Europe? Do you think they honored the cultures they assimilated? They went out of their way to maintain Greek and Roman works? Classical texts were entrenched throughout Europe. We're incredibly fortunate that the Moors couldn't read. ps, I don't know what I'm talking about, but that makes this all the more fun Yeah, I forgot how they were just missionaries. No harm, no foul. Actually, that's not true. The Moors suck! They killed my people! You misunderstand. I go to school to learn about 'science'. We scientists usually feel that we can figure out this cultural clutter stuff just by making stuff up, even when we don't really know the exact details. If we're wrong... noone really notices. We're scientists, so we can maintain jobs. You, meanwhile, will be a drunk trying to keep a job at Barnes & Noble. Who are people going to believe? Achebe the paleoecologist/evolutionary biologist or Rimbaud the artist? ancient DNA could help us determine the descendant groups of the Moors. We could make milllllllllllllllllions. Those sons of b****es. I, personally, have been wronged. Granted, it was a long time ago... and I happen to be doing okay right now. But what about those Euros that weren't able to keep their bloodlines going? Somebody should pay. Apparently South Carolina (god what a beautiful pair of words) didn't have many problems w/ evolution in education when I was young. Either that, or all of my educators broke the law. For my only serious point in this post, I will say my analogy is arguably poor... but my point was simply that people screw w/ other people. People that are negative and hold themselves down w/ invisible chains from the past are doing themselves a disservice. Things certainly sucked... things still occassionally suck. The biggest question anyone faces is, do I do it all again today? There are people of all income brackets that choose to do it all again, every single day, with a smile. Those people are winners.
