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Who is the best of two or more MVPs, but no championship players?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by plutoblue11, May 14, 2010.

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Who is the best of two or more MVPs, but no championship players?

  1. Barry Bonds - 7 NL MVPs

    27 vote(s)
    26.2%
  2. LeBron James - 2 NBA MVPs

    32 vote(s)
    31.1%
  3. Karl Malone - 2 NBA MVPs

    10 vote(s)
    9.7%
  4. Steve Nash - 2 NBA MVPs

    18 vote(s)
    17.5%
  5. Alexander Ovechkin - 2 Hart Memorial Trophies

    2 vote(s)
    1.9%
  6. Frank Thomas - 2 AL MVPs

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Ted Williams - 2 AL MVPs

    14 vote(s)
    13.6%
  8. Robin Yount - 2 AL MVPs

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Thoughts


    NBA -

    Karl Malone (1996-97,1998-99)
    Steve Nash (2004-05, 2005-06)
    LeBron James (2008-09, 2009-10)


    NHL -

    Alexander Ovechkin (2008-09, 2090-10)

    MLB -

    Barry Bonds (1990, 1992-93, 2000-04)
    Frank Thomas (1993, 1994)
    Robin Yount (1982, 1989)
    Ted Williams (1946, 1949)


    You can base on anything, you want to...

    You can also mention,

    Who is the biggest choker of the group?
    Who was on the best teams?
    Who was on the worst teams?
    Which one had the most competition in their era?
    Which ones might've been undeserved (ex. KM-NBA)?
     
  2. goodbug

    goodbug Member

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    For NBA at least, Malone showed up in 2 finals series.
     
  3. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    It's hard to compare different sports like this, but it's clearly Barry Bonds. He's arguably the best baseball player ever, rings or no rings.
     
  4. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    You can do with in the sports or choose more than one person, there's no rigid criteria.
     
  5. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Before the steroids you could make case that bonds was the greatest player ever. He could do everything on baseball field and do it well. Without the roids he would have still been a 500-500 guy which no player in mlb history has done. He also won three mvps w/o the roids as well.

    He probably wouldn't have the home run records w/o the roids, but even w/o that he is an all time great.
     
  6. ClutchCityReturns

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    Maybe if you had made the poll multiple choice. As is, there it is definitely "rigid" in the sense that you can only cast a vote for a single player, as opposed to the best in each sport.
     
  7. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    I'd have to say Ted Williams was in the most unfortunate era.

    - No Wild Card
    - Only reached the playoffs once (The Yankees won 12 titles between 1939-1960)
    - He fought in WWII, canceling
    - Played in an era where there were a number of other outstanding players in the league (DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Rizzuto, Rosen-Tribe, Kaline, Doby, and few outstanding pitchers). Pitchers in those times of baseball were up for MVP vote, as they didn't separate the CY Young winners (pitchers) from the list potential MVPs until a couple of decades, later.



    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willite01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1949.shtml#ALmvp (Something looks off with #2 candidate, Rizzuto had some weak numbers that year, but came in 2nd)
     
  8. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
    Supporting Member

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    You guys are crazy if you do not think Ted Williams was a better player than Barry Bonds, even if you ignore the steroids.
     
  9. ItsMyFault

    ItsMyFault Member

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    Ovechkin and LeBron.
     
  10. dragonz

    dragonz Member

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    Don't know much about baseball, but NL and AL MVP is more like a western or eastern conference MVP in NBA right? Therefore isn't NBA MVP more an achievement?
     
  11. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    Are you a Red Sox fan or something?

    How is Ted Williams better than Barry Bonds? The only record Ted has against Bonds is that he hit over .400 one year against pitchers who only knew how to throw fastballs.

    Barry Bonds has about 50 more At Bats then Ted.
    Barry had 762 home runs. Ted had 521.
    Barry had 514 stolen bases. Ted had 24.
    Barry had 1996 RBIs. Ted had 1839.
    Barry had 2227 Runs. Ted had 1798.
    Barry had 2558 walks. Ted had 2021.
    Barry had 2935 hits. Ted had 2654.
    Barry had 601 doubles. Ted had 525.
    Barry had 77 triples. Ted had 71.
    Barry had 8 gold gloves. Ted had 0.

    Ted wins in batting average .344 to Barry .298.

    So please justify how Ted Williams was a better player than Barry Bonds?
     
  12. RoxSqaud

    RoxSqaud Member

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    Barry Bonds *
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Al Calavicci

    Al Calavicci Contributing Member

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    I voted for Lebron.

    Karl Malone can kiss my ass and this is a Rockets forum, so I couldn't give 2 ****s about baseball.
     
  14. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    To be fair, Ace. The Rawlings GG award did not come along, until 1959. So he can't be judged on that criteria involving the Golden Gloves award. But, if you elaborated little bit more, you would've been correct to say that fielding/defense (field) was most likely the weakest aspect in Ted Williams's game (and probably inferior to Bonds). Many critics point to it, being only slightly above average at best (the article below says,"he could never escape the perception of it being a liability).

    http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/williams/prodigy.html (5th paragraph from the bottom)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willite01-field.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01-field.shtml

    His fielding numbers are slightly weaker than Bonds, as both played in the outfield.
     
  15. Homey the Clown

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    LeBron is only 25 years old. If he were 38 years old and still no title, then okay. But he's only 25.
     
  16. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    You do realize as much as we hate Malone on this site, yet recognize his great ability at the game and being top notch power forward.

    He was often "labeled" as a choker, just look at how many first exits the Jazz had in his time there, accompanied by a number of underwhelming performances. His performances in playoffs have been much more disappointing than either Kelly Leak's or Prince James's.

    It also becomes ridiculous, when people bring the MJ argument, and I have to shout out that,"MJ and the Bulls only reached the Finals 6 times from 84-04." What happened in all of those other years, where the Jazz actually did have a pretty good team or a team favorite to take it all. I remember 1999, so vividly, the Jazz were supposed to be the run away favorite and finally conquer the league, because the big bad Bulls weren't around yet. You know who is crowned by fairly good margin over Alonzo Mourning and 3rd place, Tim Duncan.

    In the playoffs, he averaged a little over 21 ppg on .417% shooting and 11 rebounds. He didn't have one game in the playoffs, where you could say the guy was hands down the MVP. On average in elimination games in the 99 Playoffs, Malone only shot 31.1 FG% from the field. Even in their worst series as MVP or in the playoffs, both Nash and LeBron played much better than that.

    You are giving the guy too much credit for just reaching the Finals, when in fact he played with well-rounded team and had another Hall of famer as a sidekick in the prime of his career. Both Nash and LeBron cannot really make that claim.
     
  17. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Not really, before 97, the conferences never played each, during the season, and only faced each in the All-Star game and World Series.

    Plus, you must also look at the term, League.
     
  18. T-macsterful1

    T-macsterful1 Member

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    who voted for malone.......get out.
     
  19. meh

    meh Member

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    Malone's basically a more awesome version of Amare. He's amazing, put up a ton of stats, but in the end he can't really put a team on his back because the offense doesn't really run through him. Stockton was the irreplaceable piece on those teams.

    So yeah, I'd also put Lebron and Nash over him. Lebron if he never wins a championship in the future, would obviously rank #1. But right now I have Nash over him.
     
  20. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    OT: I just realized how insane the 1994 Baseball season was before the strike:


    1 - Home Run Race (through 113)

    M.Williams - 43
    K.Griffey Jr. - 40
    F.Thomas - 38
    J.Bagwell - 39
    B.Bonds - 37 (lead the league in BB at the time)
    A.Belle - 36 (only 112 games played)

    61 - Roger Maris (192-record), 60 Babe Ruth (156 games)


    Would've liked seen some of the guys above break the records, even pre-HGH Bonds. Then, baseball records wouldn't look like a joke now.

    2 - Tony Gwynn was on the brink of breaking .400 even.

    3 - The Orioles having 2 20 game winners.

    4 - It would've been the first year of the wild card in the realigned divisions.

    Prospective Playoff Setup would've been

    Montreal
    Cincinnati
    Los Angeles
    Atlanta (in a closely contested playoff wild card race with Houston)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Major_League_Baseball_season
     

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