Yao Ming or LeBron James?? < Part 2 >

From everything I've heard, I'd have to take James, in a heartbeat. I think some of us are just a little biased.

 

Lebron James and CSU competed against Cavs players Bimbo Coles, Chris Mihm, DeSagana Diop, Jumaine Jones and Stith.

so what man if he dominated them... Cavs is almost a worst team in the nba.... They weak like f*** Even if LebJ dominated them doesn't mean anything.... For Diop, he weak and slow, dont forget he is more like a handicapped than a b ball player He doesn't have the game to be a nba player, just his height and size got him in...Cavs suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is LebJ better than MJ??? If so, he is dominator
I am tired of hearing peepo say some nba players will be become the next MJ. But it aint happening... Like A.I. to kobe.... There won't be no next MJ... only wannabe!!!!!!

 

It is on loose ground to say I'll pick Lebron over Ming simpily because of so and so, even to say he'll dominate over Ming. Then could you please tell me who dominate who, between Kobe and Shaq. They play different positions, complement each other to make a championship team. This is not 1 on1, it's team work. You pick the one your team need the most, the one with the most potentials and the least risk to go with your particular team. How many of you actually saw Lebron play, in person or video clips. This argument that MJ and all went to high school once is ridiculous. I m sure they all went to grade school too. May be we should also start looking for nex MJ on that level. I m sure Lebron has great potential based what been said here and there. But concluding that he WILL be the next MJ and dominating over MING, and choosing him over MING, period ,is poor judgement. Again, my point is to pick the one with greatest potential, proven ability, and the least risk, and most important of all what your own team really need. One of you said that we might be biased against Lebron. Trust me, we, MING supporters, know what that mean, for all the bashes that MING has received. What really bug me is "some" of you jump on the bandwagen that LEBRON is the next real thing simpily based on reports of his performance in high school. MING's performance in CBA and international plays dont count. Even to suggest that our high school level is definitely more competitive than CBA, and maybe even some of the European leagues is pure arrogant. I m sure there are a lot of talent among McDonald all Americans, but that s not the level of competition that Lebron playing against in most of his games. The Chinese national team do play against the best of other nations in international competition. To say our All American high schoolers will easily eat the Chinese team alive is a far-fetched prediction. Did the 2000 American Olympic team ran over the Chinese team by more than 50 points. If our high schooler could easily beat them by 20+ as predicted by you, our Olympic team should have tripled that.

 

Ming may be 7'6 but he plays more like 6'10. How can you even compare ming to duncan. Ming shoots jumpers, has trouble getting rebounds, and gets pushed around inside. He isn't going to be the impact player that can dominate the game single handedly like a duncan or shaq. I have seen him play countless times on CCTV and i gotta say the competition although slightly better than the average high school team is still pathetic.

 

Don't use the argument would you rather have a dominate post player or a dominate perimeter player in favor of ming because ming isn't going to be a dominate post player. He isn't the banger type that can push people around. He prefers to stay on the outside and has difficultly rebounding. His game is more of a sf type.

 

Dont know what CBA games you have been watching, may be when MING was at 18. The most recent games I have watched and been reported in other threads here did not show a 7' 5" perimeter shooter. To say the CBA is only slightly better than the average high school competition here is arrogant. Our McDonald all Americans could pose a realistic challenge to their best is a honest assessment. I agree we have more talents with great potentials in our high schools. But to say outright that our high school best could beat their best with "ease" is based on poor speculation.

 

This subject points out the awesomeness of Moses
Malone as a high school player who skipped college
and when he got to the ABA which merged with the
NBA the next year he still averaged 21 points and
17 rebounds per game,by the time he got to the Rockets at age 21 he was on his way to the Hall of Fame and NBA greatness. Once in a generation players are the exception and he was.

 

Just sticking to the oringinal topic in every regard. I would pick Yao with out a doubt.

 

I'm not convinced at all that James is better than Yao currently and Yao will definitly be a lesser player in the future. Here's why:

1.Yao and James are both physical freaks with much potential, the difference is, you can't teach height, and due to natural position James will never have the defensive presence that Yao brings. Yao Ming in a heartbeat.

2.James showed no flaws or weaknesses in his game facing high school competition, and ppl think that's a sign of greatness. Nope it's not as he's facing, no matter how you hype him up, a bunch of high school ballers. Yao Ming also showed absolutely no flaws in his game in the CBA, and gets far more impressive stats than James, but he became the unfair victim in this comparison as he's exposed to international competition now. I expect the same thing to James.Yao also illustrated a fact that players don't know or show their weaknesses until they reach the next level. The fact is, you just don't know if there is weaknesses or flaws in a player's game if he's not being really tested. Holes in one's game can't be all seen by the high school telescope, but will be seen under the NBA microscopic lens. No basketball guru can tell you that James truly have no weaknesses in any level in advance. The experts¡¦ nice words on James, if objectively construed, only indicated that James is all good at the HS level, which doesn't translate much into the NBA realistically. Aside from the weakness factor, the same unpredictability can be said about potential, I'd like to meet the inventor of BBall talent gauge who apparently used it to gauge James to predict he's the next sure big thing in utmost definite tone. The fact is no one knows for sure James can keep his growth for sure, otherwise they are outright lying. Who's to say that James wouldn't get his weaknesses exposed under higher level of competition? Who? Who's to say that he's destined to conquer those deficiencies with his surplus of potential? Who? God? No one really knows so don't pretend he's the next sure big thing. Kobe and Garnett had many things to learn and areas to improve when they entered the league, so do James, and the possibility of his ineptitude to learn and improve adequately remains, as no one can deny the possibility that he's an early bloomer who's already maxed out.

LeBron James is not a sure thing. It's about potential and risks no matter how hyped up he is.

3.If anyone thinks that high school competition is better than the CBA's you are fooling yourself. The majority teams in high schools are bad. The handful elite teams acquire talents from all over the world, guess what, so do the CBA and all other pro leagues in the world, only that they get more mature talents. The CBA have ex NBA players and the high school teams do not. That's a fact. The CBA players are professionals and the high school ballers are amateurs. The CBA players have way more experience than high school kids. The CBA players spend more time together as teammates and have better chemistry than high school ballers. The CBA have so many pure shooters that can put James to shame shooting jumpers. The CBA is better than US high school competition so do many, many professional leagues around the world. Yao plays in an environment of higher competition than James period.

4. It's up to you to really believe that James can pass like Magic, score like Jordan, while being physically better than Kobe. Yup, it's up to you to believe that King James(as he's so fondly calling himself) is Magic, Jordan and Kobe all wrapped up into one, as exactly those Nike or Adidas execs who's gonna pay James 20 mils expect you to believe, while they are busy coming up sound bites like the Chosen One for James. I've got truly nothing to say if one fail to see the utmost unlikeliness and businees motives behind such paramount crowning on a high school kid who absolutely did nothing yet.

5. The Cavs are the crappiest team in the NBA, and based on that workout article alone, King James failed to, as usual, dominate the scrubs among scrubs. All that article rapped about is how he throws down some flashy dunks and got some assists. I bet I can write the same thing about Darvin Ham in a on game. How about the cream on the top.Points????? FG%????? Hello???? Anyone home???? Why not enclose those vital stats had they been any good to make the James worshippers moan in their Jamesorgasm. I guess those hypers made it an art form hyping up James through their selective editing, and I refuse such brainwashing.

6.You can throw out all the nice things the public says on James, but I can find an equal amount of praises on Yao and list them here. I won't, as doing so completely undermines the meirts of individual thinking and discussion. I won't whip out how Bill Walton's article claiming that Yao Ming can revolutionize the game, or how Yao Ming is the real deal said by other experts. As unanimously acclaimed James is, so is Yao Ming. This fact has no bearing on the current topic since they're on the same ground. We need to analyze things by ourselves, instead of handing out our brain and bow down to the hype.

Refuse the HYPE!

 

The make it shorter to read, I come back to edit the post and make those important lines in boldface. Other content that's not in boldface is for reference only, the same goes for the next article.
Dateline BA
The King shows up -- and shows a different LeBron
By Michael Kruse
July 11, 2002

HACKENSACK, N.J. -- LeBron James walked in like he owned the place.

The injured icon arrived here at adidas' ABCD Camp Wednesday night around 9. He emerged through a back entrance wearing a Dajuan Wagner Memphis jersey and a cast on his broken left wrist.

Folks stirred. They watched. They talked and they galked. The rising senior superstar from Akron, Ohio, was most definitely in the building.

But that scene was nothing compared to Thursday morning -- when the kid showed something other than his bling bling.

Camp officials called a press conference and set it for 10.

At 10? Nothing.

Four minutes after 10? "Just to let everyone know," adidas PR czar Travis Gonzolez said, "LeBron will be here in about 15 minutes."

Great.

Fifteen minutes later?

"A few more minutes," Gonzolez said. "We're still waiting on the family."

James, meanwhile, sat on the baseline of one of the four courts at Fairleigh Dickinson's Rothman Center, wearing a "King James" sleeveless T-shirt, laughing and telling his buddies how he was making the media wait.

At 10:44? ABCD bigwig Gary DeCesare made an announcement over the PA system: "The 10:00 press conference has been rescheduled for 11."

At 10:59? DeCesare again: "The 10:00 press conference is now taking place upstairs."

And it was -- more ridiculous than even the hour-long waiting period.

"I'm not amazed by it all," he said when asked about the hype.

Same for his mother.

"I'm not surprised," Gloria James said. "He doesn't surprise me too much by what he does anymore. I know that whatever he does it's going to be at the top level."

Someone asked about his trip to rival Nike All-America Camp earlier this week in Indianapolis.

"For me, I think it's great," James said. "To have two companies chasing me? I like it. And it's not just Nike and adidas. Everyone has a chance for me."

Has all this attention -- the two USA Today first-team All-USA selections, the Sports Illustrated cover, the Slam cover -- changed him?

"It's changed my life," he explained. "I can't be a normal kid anymore. But I've still got my head on straight. It hasn't changed me."

Yes it has. And any fool saw that Thursday here in North Jersey.

Blowhard critics -- armchair columnists and the sort -- will point to "the system." They'll blame "the culture" of the sport. They'll blame the sneaker-driven world of grassroots basketball -- in other words, big, bad "AAU."

And this stuff did produce LeBron.

No naievete here: This stuff exists to produce LeBron and others like him. Talents prodigious enough, faces recognizable enough and names big enough to spread the adidas or Nike gospel -- that is, to sell many, many sneakers.

All true.

But the reason basketball is so damn interesting at this level -- the reason it's way more often a positive than a negative -- isn't at all about the Kobes and the T-Macs and the LeBrons.

It's about Vakeaton Wafer, a fabulously skilled shooting guard from tiny Lisbon, La., who used the Houston Kingwood Classic in April to earn high-major scholarship opportunities.

It's about Yi Jianlian, a 6-11 center from ShenZhen, China, who came to America earlier this month to participate in this camp.

It's about a guy like Springfield, Ohio, forward Ivan Harris, a little-known Buckeyes commitment who emerged this week as one of ABCD's most consistent performers.

And it's about brace-faced Dwight Howard II, a 6-10 power forward from East Point, Ga., who was all but unknown before coming here to play in front of some of the country's top coaches and scouts.

But Yi, Ivan and Dwight? Few folks cared about them once LeBron showed up. Not after King James started holding court.

It didn't used to be this way. Not even at ABCD last year ago at this time. So when, exactly, did All Things LeBron take this turn for the outrageous?

When USA Today made him a first-team All-American after his sophomore year at St. Vincent-St. Mary? When Sports Illustrated put him on its cover this winter? When Slam did the same this spring?

Whenever it happened, it happened hard -- and James let it happen.

Is it the culture? Is this the nature of the grassroots beast? Absolutely. But it took Team LeBron -- the King and his "inner circle" -- to handle all the attention this way.

The kid himself, after all, was the one who Thursday morning signed an autograph for a middle schooler by scrawling "King James -- LBJ -- # 23." He was the one who wore that look-at-me T.

He was the one who said how much he was looking forward to next spring's McDonald's All-American Game in Cleveland -- but that his friends and family better get in for free because "they ain't paying no 50 dollars for tickets."

And he was the one who told an aspiring personal trainer that he could have "two seconds of my life" -- and then gave the guy exactly that before literally turning around and walking away.

The King.

"It's all about business," James said when asked in the presser about the multi-million-dollar fight to put shoes on his feet and clothes on his back. "And it's important for me to start early. Because it's about to get crazy."

About to? It already has.

Hit BasketballAmerica.com for Michael Kruse's daily grassroots coverage throughout the summer.

James admitting himself that it's all about business.

 

NBA investigating Cleveland Cavaliers for workout with LeBron James
By TOM WITHERS

May 28, 2002
CLEVELAND (AP) - LeBron James has drawn his first NBA foul - and it cost the Cleveland Cavaliers. The league fined the Cavs $150,000 Tuesday and suspended coach John Lucas for the first two games of next season for including James, the nation's top high school basketball player, in a voluntary workout for players last week at Gund Arena.


In a statement, the league said Lucas was fined for "violating league rules prohibiting contact between NBA teams and players not yet eligible for the NBA Draft."


James, a junior at St. Vincent-St. Mary High School in Akron, Ohio, was invited to a May 22 workout along with several local college players and some free agents by Lucas.


Cavaliers spokesman Ed Markey declined to comment, and Lucas did not immediately return a message seeking comment.


NBA deputy commissioner Russ Granik said the Cavs should have known better.


"The player didn't do anything wrong," Granik said Tuesday night in Sacramento before the Los Angeles Lakers played the Kings. "It's up to the teams to enforce that.


"The teams are not allowed to have any contact with any players not eligible for the draft. In the last two years we've really hammered home what the rules are.


"I don't think there was anything sinister by the Cavaliers, they just weren't paying attention."


The league's rules state, "teams may not directly or indirectly have or engage or attempt to have or engage in any discussion, communications or contact whatsoever with any player who has remaining intercollegiate basketball eligibility or is otherwise ineligible to be selected in such draft."


The NBA prohibits players from entering the draft before their class graduates from high school.


Last week, James played on a team with Lucas' son, John Jr., a freshman guard at Baylor, and later played point guard on a team of Cleveland players.


The 17-year-old James dazzled the Cavs and others in attendance, soaring for several spectacular dunks and showing why many believe he will be the first player taken in the 2003 NBA draft if he decides not to attend college.


James hasn't ruled out college and said during this past season that he has narrowed his choices to Duke, Florida, Louisville, North Carolina and Ohio State.


Lucas spoke at St. Vincent-St. Mary's team awards banquet last week in Akron, about 40 miles from Cleveland, and has become friendly with James, who attended several Cavs games last season.


The six-foot-seven James has said he will return to high school for his senior season and has denied reports he will play in Europe while waiting to become eligible for the NBA.


James averaged 29 points, 8.3 rebounds, 5.7 assists and 3.3 steals last season while leading the Fighting Irish to the state finals.


In March, James won The Associated Press' Ohio Mr. Basketball award for the second straight year, one month after becoming the first high school underclass basketball player to appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated under the heading: "The Chosen One."


James also received several other national player of the year awards.


The workout with the Cavs wasn't the first time James has played against NBA players. Last summer, he was invited to Chicago by Michael Jordan and participated in workouts Jordan held while contemplating his comeback.


Before turning pro, Lakers guard Kobe Bryant was invited by Lucas to work out with the Philadelphia 76ers. Lucas coached in Philadelphia from 1994-96.


The Cavs, who have had three straight 50-loss seasons, have the No. 6 pick in next month's draft. If James decides to turn pro next year, Cleveland would probably have to win the NBA lottery or make a trade to have any shot at him.


"We'd certainly love to get him," Cavs owner Gordon Gund said just after the season finished. "But I don't think we'd give away everything we have to get him, and that may be what it takes."

There's people who's gonna hype him up to be the next sure big thing, but backs out when they have to give up something significant for the next Magic, Jordan and Kobe triumvirate. If Cavs owner doesn't want to trade away the crappiest team for the next Jordan, that prooves it's all about hype. They can talk the talk, but not walk the walk. Easy to kiss someone' ass, hard to prove his value by action, not surprising considering it's just business.

 

I still have other materials that says James still have improvements to make on his game and body, but I'll stop now cuz this parade of articles presentation war is getting unbelievably boring even for myself. If there's any doubt at how unbelievable ego maniac James is, there's plenty this kind of articles around. I don't like the kid's personality. He's spoiled to an unbelievable extent, Kobe was like a joke compared to him and I'm not sure James will grow out of it. Sorry, I'd rather have Yao who's a lot, and I mean in the measurement of light years, more mature and humble than James could ever be.

 

hey hey i know that Ming is alot intelligent than Duncan or shaq.....you cant judge him not until you see him play with spur or laker......

 

Hmm...I don't know about that, I believe with time if Ming dedicate his time to basketball and weight training(not going to Spy and hitting on our fine asian babes) he can be as dominant on the offensive end as TD...

First of all, Duncan is really not too much of a banger either, he's more of 'finess' type of big man. Usually he starts off facing up and uses assortment of outside shots and bank shots to set up his mini-drive to the basket. As for post he rarely uses physical moves to get his point but rather he draws the defender away with different pump fakes. And this type of game is exactly what Ming can achieve...a slow methodical killing Machine....

As for the the Lebron James and Yao Ming argument, basically all the argument can be summed in one sentence. Yao is the safer bet with potential to be a Duncun like player but could be just another Rik Smits while James has loads upside that's unparalleled to any other player in the draft, this year or next's...but unless he has the maturity and composure of Kobe you might see another Shawn Kemp in Cleveland(yes, folks, lots of 'Sorry, Ms. Jackson and etc....I am for real..never meant make you daughter cry......')

 

It's really laughable to say that those two articles stood up to all the facts that my articles presented you with.

"one thing for sure...

Ming is not like some cocky assholes just out of college or high school........... who are just pure ignorant and not highly
COACH-ABLE...........


in fact, Ming is keen and willing to LEARN!!!!! he knows his weakness (need to gain more weight) and he's trying to imrprove upon it... I'm sure some american burgers and gym work will ballon his upper body strength in no time... he can gain 15 pounds easily before the tip off next season.........

have you guys ever heard of Marcus Camby? he's a light-weight guy ever since he entered the league.
6'11 220 pounds... he knows his weakness but did he even try to get stronger by hitting the gym? NO........ he's more interested in getting a fat paycheck than self-improvemnt => helping the team make the playoffs..."

let me tear down this argument. So Ming knows his weakness, SO WHAT? Obviously, James knew his weakness, that's why his game is so good now. American Burgers and gym work? I think everyone agrees that all Ming needs is upper body STRENGTH, not BUFF. If he gains 15lbs before next season, then I will fully expect his career to end in his first season. His knees won't be able to take it.

Marcus Camby, for the longest time, was a light weight and didn't care. But if you knew anything about it, you'd know that for the past 2 years, he's been working rigorously to add muscle to his body (he added 20lbs over 2 seasons and a half) and he also went to Newell's big camp at least once. So, yes, he is a competitior, and he cares about more than the fat check.


Listen, if physical developing and cockniess are the only weaknesses you can find in his game, then, still, give me James.

Don't you see? Even if he's not Jordan/Magic, even if he's not Jordan, even if he's not Magic. Even if he's not Kobe. If he's just Tracy McGrady, then still, give me James.

Do you know how good T-Mac is? Do you know how young he is? Think about it like this:

Look at how good Lebron is right now. let's say you're right, and Ming is better right now. James is 3 years younger. Do you honestly think that James aver 2 years of NBA experience is not better than Ming with no NBA experience?

In a year, when ming has a year under his belt, and James is just coming in, they will play at the same level.


As for your "Cavs SUCK" comments. Here's what you SHOULD know: they all have NBA experience. That's what counts. make no mistake about it, he DOMINATED them. Not defensive minded SG Stith, not 6'7 F Jumaine Jones could stop him. Not shotblocking Mihm or GIANT C Diop. These players ALL had NBA experience. That's what's important. If you're still not convinced, then 2 words come to mind: UNDRAFTED Chris Christofferson.


Listen, I said it before, and I'll say it again. ming may have had a bad workout. But I think he's going to be a great player. Kind of like a Illgauskas if he had reached FULL potential without injuries. Oh, and 3 more inches. But LebRon James is a phenomenon. He's ready for NBA ball. Everyone knows it. If he knows how to oplay with these shoe companies, how's that a bad thing? He's smart, he's using them to HIS advantage. They work for him, he doesn't work for them. Now he has one year to work on his body (if he even needs to). Then what will the weakness be?

 

Lebron DOMINATED them? I thought he impressed them with a couple of dunks and assists. That s a far stretch from impressed to dominated. Please give me the stat if that workout was in a game format. If what panda stated in his last 2 posts r true. This kid is a spoiled brat. Hope your son is not like that if u r old enough and have one--of course not the basket ball skills I meant.

 

Listen, no need for personal attacks. We've gone for 2 pages without it, and I'd like to continue without it.


Yes, he dominated them. They could NOT stop him. He ran the point too. Saying he had nice dunks and assists? You don't hear "most NBA ready HS player" for just dunks and assists.

The 6-7 James slashed to the basket and he nailed jumpers from the outside. His play also included a swift shake and dribble around his defender where he went to the other side of the rim for a quick reverse slam that generated this response from Lucas: "We got to have him. We got to have him."


He's no spoiled brat. He's not going to let the business control him. He's controlling the business. He knows his worth, and he's making sure no one takes advantage of him.


This kid is obviously smart. He's obviously got hops. He's got 3 EXTRA, I repeat, EXTRA years to work on his game. He doesn't even need them.


Listen, if all the doubts about Ming are resolved, then I'll tell you myself, they will both reach epic proportions. But there are more "if"s about Ming's game than there are about James'. Let's not forget the age factor.