Joe Johnson - "We could care less if they show up"

Right. There's a big difference between

- not caring if the fans show up
and
- not caring if they cheer of boo

 

So let's see here:

(1) You think JJ's value to the team is vastly overrated
(2) You think Al Horford is a better basketball player than JJ (which probably means you also think Horford contributes more to the team -- even scarier)
(3) You think Horford is the Hawks' best player
(4) You seem to think Marvin Williams is more than just a "Get paid, stop caring" chump that's already maxed out his potential

Am I understanding this all correctly? If so, you're making this way too easy for me. You claim to watch this team and that you're remotely familiar with their strengths/weaknesses yet these are all observations not a single intelligent Hawks fan would agree with. No seriously, if I had the time I would join an Atlanta Hawks message board and relay some of your posts just to get a reaction -- that's how off you are.

As for whether or not he's earned his salary or was a smart acquisition in hindsight, I mean....okay, we can play that game too. Keep this number in mind: 13. 13 would be the number of wins the Hawks accumulated the year before his arrival in Atlanta. 26 would be their win total the following season. 26 followed by 30, 37, 47 and 53. Now, you can question whether or not he's their best player or who the true backbone of that team was, but the fact of the matter is anybody that follows that team closely knows who the key figure was behind this monster turnaround. The guy has been their best scorer, primary playmaker and best perimeter defender for years -- his contributions and value to the team FAR exceed whatever his PER or playoff shooting performances indicate.

Just like with any star or best player on Team X -- that player is going to get the brunt of the praise when times are good and blame when things are bad. Right now, too many of you are letting emotion blind your common sense. Sure, right now JJ's stock seems to be plummeting severely but at the end of the day and once all the dust settles (after the July Moratorium), level heads will prevail and intelligent, well-reasoned decisions will be made. I do think it's a strong likelihood that his poor playoff performance and subsequent evidence of what he lacks as an alpha-male star will cost him a few million, but I also think he's still going to get something in the neighborhood of the extension he turned down from Atlanta earlier this season. I believe that's fair for both what he's done and how valuable he is to that current team.

 

Couldn't be put better.

 

Did I miss the obligatory :

"That doesn’t bother me, and I hope it doesn’t bother anyone in this locker room,” Johnson said. “It’s about us in this locker room. We could care less if [fans] showed up - because we've clearly decided not to.."

Disgraceful performance by the Hawks in this series.

 

You've some interesting points however there's really no way you can say that in hindsight signing JJ to the max was a good move.

The wins you total you posted are misleading, its not like JJ went all Lebron on everyone's asses. Those wins were team-driven, a lot of players the Hawks acquired contributed to those just as much as JJ did, with the acquisition of crawford coming into my mind as an example.

I don't care whether or not Hawks fans agree with me, truth is not an opinion. And what is true is that JJ has been disappointing every playoff run the Hawks have had. Its not like JJ has only had a disapointing performance this year, every year the playoff comes around he wilts faster than a rose in the desert heat. If you want to I can post his stats especially his shooting % every year and you'll see why he has a 0.1 win share for the playoffs. Is paying the max for a regular season warrior a good move to you? Mo Williams does that at half the price!

Finally, I look at your argument it seems to devolve into "I don't care what the facts are, JJ's intangibles are the shiznit!!!". Battier can get a pass for being an intangible player because he's just a role player. JJ on the other hand is being paid to produce tangible results. Sure being a leader is great, but as JJ himself said he ain't leading none when he shoots 3-15.

 

Joe Johnson clearly playing like a man who already has a guaranteed max deal from NY in the offseason. It's too bad he can't suck more in the regular season so those NY picks have more lottery potential to them.

 

Clearly, we have differing views on what it takes to actually earn your salary in this league. If being the backbone of a team that went from 16 wins before your arrival to eventually 53 all the while dealing with the multitude of responsibilities JJ has isn't good enough for you (not to mention, shaky front office decision-making), I'm a tad bit curious as to which "star" in this league you think actually earns his paycheck.

What's also funny is you act like this is a team full of win-thirsty, smart players ready to go out there and do whatever it takes to win. This is the first year in Josh Smith's career where he hasn't played like a complete bonehead that follows up one spectacular play with 2-3 terrible ones -- but don't worry, his numbers on paper still looked good. Marvin Williams used to be just an inconsistent softy. Now, he's an inconsistent softy that doesn't play hard. Horford has been all over the place his entire career. The Crawford acquisition was a smart and valuable one, but he also happens to be one of the biggest hot/cold players in the league that can just as easily shoot you out of a game as he can impact one.

Overall, his supporting cast has been a teasing yet schizo and incompetent group that can absolutely blow your mind at times with their lackluster effort, bonehead plays and Houdini acts. It also doesn't help that Atlanta brass has done very little to improve this team over the past five years. Aside from the Crawford acquisition (great move, however they neglected the rest of Atlanta's abysmal bench in the process), they've made no significant free agent signings, drafted no significant contributors and have done little via the trade market. But guess what, THEY STILL KEEP WINNING. You can make up your little "facts", go on rants that nobody else agrees with, make inane Shane Battier comparisons or insult my intelligence for thinking JJ is the backbone of that team....fine.

Agree to disagree, I guess. Just don't be surprised whenever the dust settles, cooler heads prevail and somebody ponies up and pays the guy.

 

I don't have an issue with JJ being a main guy. What I have an issue is him fading in the playoffs. He's supposed to be the backbone of the team right? The one who leads his team to victory. How come he can't step up during the playoffs? I guess you missed my point, he's been a habitual playoff choker. Name one year during his hawks tenure where his playoff production didn't fall off a cliff. I'm not insulting your intelligence at all, as I said you made some valid points. However don't try to paint JJ as some type of dude who's worthy of a major contract, he hasn't proved anything in the playoffs yet despite being in his prime and in a relatively weak conference where he doesn't have to go against the Kobe, Melo, Durant and Brandon Roy every single level of the playoffs.

Wade and Lebron. That's it, and they won't meet until the conference finals at least. And he can't do it. He should have dominated against a Bucks team without Redd and Bogut. Instead he can't hold a rookie down and they almost lost.

 

Any team that signs Johnson to a max deal are idiots. He is not a max player.

 

Joe Johnson = most boring player to watch in history

 

Well, it's nice to know you feel there's a whopping two whole NBA players that actually earn their salaries. I guess that makes the NBA the most inefficient business model in the history of human civilization.

Anyway, I never said JJ's production doesn't fade in the playoffs. It does and it has. That still doesn't erase all the good he did up until that point. Sure, the playoffs are when it counts the most and all that hoopla -- I get that. But to sit here and act like all the good he did to actually get them there in the first place is null and void simply because he and the team didn't have what it takes to elevate their games in the postseason is really quite foolish. It's been abundantly clear for at the very least the past two years that the Hawks need another star, another big gun and guy capable of taking over games and Hawks' brass still refuses to address that. Crawford was the only significant addition they've made in the JJ era (along with Bibby but he certainly doesn't fit that description) and he's nowhere near good enough to fit that role.

And just for clarification purposes, I'm not saying I'd be pumped to go out and offer JJ some insane max contract starting at $17-18M a year or whatever like Bosh and a couple others will get. All I'm saying is JJ has earned every dime of his previous contract coupled with his continued success and proven ability to at least lead a winner TO the postseason, he's earned himself a contract in the neighborhood of the extension he turned down at roughly $15M per year (tops, mind you). I know things will change after this new CBA but based upon the going rate for "stars" he's earned himself a contract in that neighborhood -- playoff blunders or not. With this Orlando series catastrophe fresh in the minds of GM's, I think he'll be forced to reconsider that extension he turned down and ultimately accept a deal in that neighborhood.

Atlanta can still do the smart thing by retaining him, bringing in a new coach and looking to upgrade in other areas. With any luck, they can pull off a big deal for another star. With Crawford's $10M expiring contract and fair contracts for players like Bibby, Marvin and Pachulia I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of a big trade going down. That is, if Atlanta brass actually has the brains/stones to do the smart thing.

 

i'd first boo the guy who drafted him over Deron Williams and Chris Paul when the Hawks had a glaring hole at the PG spot and had plenty of forwards at the time

 

Wow!!!!

All the bashing over JJ... Just amazing...

Last I checked basketball is a team game and unfortunately when Orlando shut JJ down, nobody else on Atlanta's team stepped up.

Anytime JJ drove to the basket there were at least 3 people attacking him and when he did kick out his teammates couldn't hit throw a ball in the ocean if they were riding in a canoe.

Say what you want or will... But I would love to see JJ play with AB...

 

I don't know what's being said about Joe Johnson here but I wouldn't want him as a Rockets. He's a shooter, not a good defender and does not go to the basket that much. We have Kevin Martin to play that role. If the Rockets get lucky at the NBA lottery, they might just have the right amount of assets to get whoever they want ( even LeBron ).. If they Cavs get eliminated by the Celtics Lebron is not going back to Cleveland so Why not come to the Rockets and win right away... Playing next to Yao means LeBron would have another billion of Chinese Fans buying his jersey with the new number and Rocket Red... Let's keep Scola and Lowry and go for King James instead of CB4.... Am I dreaming ??? yeah a little but don't tell me the Knicks or the Nets offers more than Houston as a Basketball team...

 

The 2nd coming of T-Mac? yikes... someone blast me please

 

QUESTION: Do you think this will cost him money when he becomes a free agent?

I know I would be hesitent to sign him.

Rocket River

 

I definitely think it will cost him some money. He's going to get a nice payday regardless, but I see him being taken on by a risk-taking type of team a.l.a. the Mavericks or Knicks. If he goes to a contender other than the Mavs, he's going to get less money for putting it in the tank for the playoffs. You don't want a mentally weak player that's supposed to be one of your key pieces mailing it in when your series is on the line.

Disappointing certainly with Johnson, but I think that entire team had to have had some chemistry issues/locker room cancer throughout the year. Johnson might have lead the locker room cancer charge, but to fail as badly as they did against the Magic and going way too deep into a series with the Bucks, there had to have been other issues going on with the team.

 

nice effort, Worst aggregate four game point defecit in playoff history

WOW

 

It's sad to see someone like Joe Johnson getting past he first rounds despite sucking more often than not in the playoffs and a guy like tmac failing over and over again