Is Bosh a franchise player?

I could be wrong but I don't think that the '04 Pistons were paying anybody the kind of money that we would be paying both Bosh and Yao. They had a greater balance of talent and in terms of spreading around their resources.

I would almost prefer to trade Yao if we are going to bring in Bosh. I just think that having two players that are not clear cut "franchise players" getting max contracts means that not only are they not worth what they're making but that you will also have too many weaknesses in other areas.

None of us know exactly what we will have to give up to get Bosh in the first place. It could be a little more than we think depending on how things play out in the coming months. What if we give up a bunch of role players, picks and cash then Yao gets injured again and we end up looking like the Houston Raptors, plus are tied to possibly a 2nd-tier player getting overpayed for the next x number of years?

We could end up just creating another similar era to the Yao-Tracy era where we are good but not good enough and also not bad enough to rebuild like OKC and Portland have been doing in recent years. Stuck in the middle sucks.

 

I'm not completely against getting Bosh. As I've said a few times, I'm sort of on the fence.

A lineup of (Lowry or Brooks), Martin, (Ariza or Battier), Bosh, Yao with either Scola or Hill as the 3rd big would be intriguing to watch for a season.

I would just hope that the Rockets would be willing to part ways with Yao after next season unless he would be willing to resign for under $10 mil in 2011-12 and anything beyond.

 

Since when did leeb hijack your account?

Yao will be making the max for one more year, and is pretty much a perfect fit for Bosh, as Bosh would really like to play with a good center, and Yao's as good as it gets.

And I just don't get it. With the trade for Martin, with the team meshing, with Yao coming back, we're nearly there. We just need one last push to get to the top, crush the Lakers, and be the champs, and Bosh would be that final push and improvement to get us over the top. And you want to pull back? I just don't understand that logic.

 

I haven't really been putting that much thought into this whole thing. It's too far away and I don't want to get into the headache of trying to predict all the possibilities. I mean a lot of people are talking like we've already landed Bosh and they know exactly who and what we are going to have to give up to get him. I sort of feel like we aren't even going to land him. You rarely see a team say I'm going to get this guy and end up getting him.

For now, I'm just getting my sports fix by watching the miserable Astros until things start to get interesting in a few months. :grin:

 

What do you consider overpaying him?? Bosh's market value is a max contract. We can debate all day long the idiocy of the NBA's current pay structure, but it is what it is, and Bosh's market value will be a max deal.

So I say again do you want an All-Star (and 95% of them get/will get max deals), or would you rather spend the money on a few lesser role players??

That is the debate in the nutshell. I would add an All-Star, and hope Morey drafts well, because I think that has the highest probability of success. I certainly do understand the other side of that argument though.

 

Bosh is a very very good player, i dunno if he is a franchise player but he is definately an upgrade for the rockets like you said, and if Bosh is not a franchise player then Nowitski is not... Bosh is still the best PF fit for the rockets this summer of free agents. Bosh > dirk, boozer, stoudamire etc.

i still want bosh on this team...but without losing scola of course.

 

If Bosh wants to come here we can make it happen without giving up too much. Something like Hill,Ariza/Battier,Jeffries and picks should make it work.
Your giving up Hill, picks, and Ariza or Shane........jeffries is fodder for cap reasons. We still have alot of depth even with giving up Hill and Ariza/Shane.

The key if this happens is what to do with Yao. I wouldn't give him a max deal next go around, and would try to sign him for around 10 million a year.......if not then he goes. Bosh at this point is a safer option to build a team around than Yao. Hopefully Yao resigns next off season for a discount.....if not take the pay flex and go elsewhere.

 

Then this thread needs to be moved to Dish. Posting it in GARM obviously implies that DD is really asking wheter we should go after him or not.

 

Agreed 100%

 

If Morey thinks this is a wise use of money and cap space, I don't know how we can argue really. I mean the guy literally always makes the right decision, often turning out much better than we would ever expect.

Seriously, who knew Lowry, Scola, Budinger, Landry and Brooks were all going to turn out like they did. And these are all low paid guys. This would be the first time we have seen Morey commit MAJOR money to one player, and I would jump at it, if the opportunity is there. This is arguably the best PF in the league and he is in his prime!

Its not as if, we can't move Bosh later for pieces if it doesnt work out. I don't think this will be a Brand signing.

 

He's not worth the max but he's going to get it regardless. As far as the new CBA agreement, I don't think the max contracts will differ that much. I do see it going down in price but the length of the contract is more important IMO.

But we can't worry too much about 2011-2012. The Rockets are focus on next year and building a championship team. I think you have to roll the dice on Bosh. He's an Allstar that can help in many areas where the Rockets currently lack. We have no clue what's going to happen with Yao but at least we know what we're getting out of Bosh.

With that said, the key is not having to give up too much to make an upgrade. That, IMO, is the biggest question mark out there, and that's what I currently worry about.

 

I think alot of teams have gotten into trouble thinking a guy is the franchise player because he's better than anything you have. There have been alot of mistakes in the past, but when i pay a guy franchise money, he better be able to take garbage to the playoffs at least. As the money goes down, so does the expectations. Yao and bosh are like tracy and yao together. Both good players, neither are the grab the bull by the horns type. Brooks,scola,martin are also in the same mindset. They're all good players, but no one has that personality to take over the team. They're kinda like i will do my job and go home types. No one in that lineup will get into someone grill about blowing an assignment or missing a rotation. No one will getting into that guys grill for not getting back or slumping. Now that guy should be 1 of your 2 best players, but sometimes that guy might be an avery or mario or even casell or steven jackson. With the personalities on this team, you need someone who plays alot and is a contributor to be like that. If not, all you have is a team of good players who can't get over the hump like adelman has had in the past.

 

I just do not see any NBA team will NOT get Bosh if they can still keep most of their cores. The lakers have at least 3 or 4 overpaid players.

 

Fair enough, and I understand your point. I disagree, because I don't think you can run a team thinking about what could be, but rather what is. Paying an All-Star PF the max makes since to me, as long as we don't resign Yao to another max deal.

You guys bring up legitimate points in the Tracy & Yao example, but what if they could have stayed healthy??? Were either of those guys franchise players?? Nah..........but I wouldn't call Pierce, KG, or Allen franchise players. However, the sum of the parts was good enough to win a title.

I am of the opinion their are only 4 true franchise type players in the NBA. Obviously, the pay scale doesn't nor ever will reflect that kind of upper echelon. Therefore, the goal isn't to get a "franchise" player, but to get a team that plays well together, and has enough talent to win a championship. Bosh is arguably the best PF in the NBA right now. Adding him to a team of Yao,Scola,Ariza,Brooks,and Martin has a much higher probability of leading us to a title than any hopes of waiting and landing a true franchise player affords.

I understand your argument, and their is some valid points to it, but to me it comes down to what has the most probability of making us truly competitive again. Adding a piece like Bosh is much more likely to do that than waiting for what percentages say will never come.......jmho.

 

What rock have a bunch of you guys been under... He's been the face of the Toronto franchise and have carried the team for years now. Those who compare him to Lebron, Wade, and Kobe... C'mon man! These are all(potential) GOATs not just mere franchise players. Could Bosh have done more to get the Raptors into the playoffs, sure. Colangelo really botched this team tho. The Raptors have been a team w/o an identity for years now. Bosh will fit very nicely in Adelman's system, finally playing for a coach who knows what he is doing with skilled bigs.

Hate to say it, but Bosh needs to get the hell out of Toronto... he's mired in a losing culture. Toronto is a great place to live, but not a great place to root for take your pick of non playoff contending professional sports franchises. They still hang their hat on Joe Carter's walk off homers!

If the Rockets can get a Lebron or Wade - Just DO EET. If not feasible, why not another FRANCHISE big to pair up with Yao. Twin Towers II (Arnold and Devito-esque) baby!

 

This.

Bosh isn't on the level of Lebron/Wade/Kobe/etc, sure. But he's on the next tier down. It's the same tier Yao and McGrady at one point in time were on (Yao still might be there depending on his recovery), guys like Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Carmelo Anthony, Dirk Nowitzki, are also there.

These are players that could join your team and immediately become the best player on your team (except for rare cases where the team already has one of the guys in the first tier).

Whatever you call it... franchise player... great player, top 10 player, whatever. Bosh is Bosh. We know what he brings to the table. Great player on the offensive end, not dominant in the paint like Shaq or Howard can be, but those guys don't have the range like Bosh does. Adequate defense, not horrible, but not great either.

There is nothing to be gained by giving him the most correct label... when he all know what he is. I don't really see any arguments that he's not a great threat on offense, or anything like that.

 

Yeah, saying T-mac experiment failed because he isn't " grab the bull by the horns" type of player. T-mac was total screw up, because he was always injured and was getting even more injured. He missed like 60 games in 2009-10, due to surgery and injury. Bosh doesn't even compare to that.

Yao is a walking injury also.

 

Dirk carried his team to the finals a mvp. How many times have carmello missed the playoffs? How many times have his teams not won 45 games or so. Bosh isn't in their class and neither is Yao.

 

a healthy Yao is.