That problem is a lack of communication in the time they have spent together...it's not a temporal issue. My wife and I were both 27 when we met. Now I'm 29 and she's 28. So we were older than Quicksilver. When we started to have a physical relationship she asked me how many sex partners I have had. I was honest about it and we moved on. Now we have been married for almost 9 months and are pretty damned happy. These are issues that if you are inclined to take them up should be done before an engagement starts. I don't think his ears are at issue here.
Before anything, I'd ask Holden to consider this thread as it applies to his recent thread on the same subject. You may find yourself in Quick's fiancee's position later in life. I take a flesh-of-one-flesh approach to marriage. There is nothing at all in my wife's life that is not my business (and vice-versa). It works for me and I'd advise it for everyone else too. In that vein, you should know for knowing's sake -- just so that there are no secrets. Several posters have said it is an issue of trust, but I don't think it is. Well, it is a trust issue for her: she doesn't trust you'll stay if she tells you just how promiscuous she was. Your issue is simple jealousy, which I can understand. I think it will actually set your mind at ease -- in the long run -- to know the specifics. In the short run, it may cause you some trouble, honestly, but these things will seem less and less relevant as your marriage lengthens. A suggestion: tell your fiancee you won't bother her about it until you are married, but once you are married you want to know the specifics of her past. That way, she can have you locked down first before risking your bolting by fully divulging her past. However, you have to know that you can actually take whatever she can dish out. Also, don't ask her until after the honeymoon is over.
Not good advice. Let's say she spent some time as a topless dancer. What if that really bothers Quicksilver? What if he views her morality as uncompatible with his at that point? Once you get married it becomes a ton harder todeal with these issues. Doing it the way you described just seems backward.
Jealousy? Locked DOWN??? So GET married and find out . .. oh for three years I was a prostitute!? No this HAS TO BE RESOLVED BEFORE THE MARRIAGE It is Trust on BOTH THEIR PARTS . . She not trusting him to not change .. . as he stated Him NOW [after the lied] not trusting her to tell the truth. I have seen nothing to say he is jealous. . . . Rocket River
Refman, River: I'm going on the declaration of his intentions. He's said that infidelity is the only thing he'd consider leaving for. If he is sincere in that, he doesn't have anything to lose in this set-up. From your past posts, it looks to me that you're advising that he prepare to split depending on the answer she gives. I'm saying he should not allow whatever answer he gets push him off the course he has set. What if you found out that your wife was a prostitute or a topless dancer? Would you really regret marrying her in the first place? If I learned such a thing, it would break my heart and make me tremendously jealous to boot; but I wouldn't look back for a second. I'm glad you objected though because it puts stress on the lynch-pin here: you must know you are sincere when you say the answer won't affect your plans to marry. If you've been fooling yourself, you may get yourself into a heap of trouble (which is what usually happens when you're fooling yourself).
That may be a mistake. As my story earlier in this thread illustrates...sometimes it is much less painful to leave than to have something like mistrust eat away at the relationship slowly. But above all else, to thy ownself be true. If I found out that my wife had been a prostitute...no question...I'd get an STD test and I'd commence divorce proceedings. At that point everything she would have told me would have been a lie. Our morality would be incompatible and that will never be good should children come into the picture. Had she been a topless dancer...it's a closer question. But there are still moral incongruities and a lack of openness which usually spells disaster in a relationship. To suggest that these things will be easier to sort through after the wedding is ludicrous. It's just not sound advice.
First a clarification: I never said it would be "easier to sort through." I said it would be a gesture on Quick's part to set his fiancee's mind at ease about the level of his commitment. She should be able to trust him much better if he were to make such a sacrifice. I think, though, that our different reactions to a discovery of prostitution in our respective wives' past should serve as a decent yardstick for Quick. If he is like me and would forgive not only prostitution but years of hiding the truth, then my advice probably is sound. If he is more like you and would find such a revelation to be a dealbreaker, then he should probably not follow my advice. Now, whether your approach to such a revelation or mine is the more advisable is still debatable, of course. But, I'd warrant that Quick's approach in that regard wouldn't be swayed by argumentation or advice.
Guys, I don't know if this makes any difference, but she has been raped before. Once when she was a child (14) and once when she was an adult (24). She broke down and told me these things, but she was scared at that point that I would look at her differently because she had been violated. One thing that really scared me was when she told me that while growing up she had a hard time saying "No". What she exactly meant by that scares me to death. When she was raped while she was 24, she was taken advantage of by a group of 4 guys at a party. What I can't for the life of me understand is that she did not report this incident to authorities or even tell the man she was with (her 1st ex that she was with for 12 years). She thought he would leave her. I curse myself for even thinking that the above happened because she couldn't say "No". I felt really bad and wanted to know their names and whereabouts to deliver some punishment. She refused to provide me with any info regarding this event because she wanted to put everything behind her. I didn't want to push it. I asked her at the end of the conversation whether or not she had anything else to tell me before we got married and she said no. That was about 6 weeks ago. She admitted to me about the 3rd guy a couple of days ago. Is the complete truth ever going to come out without me pulling it out of her? I really wished she had been honest with me from the beginning. I am beginning to feel that our relationship began on false pre-tenses. She is a really beautiful person...inside and out. I don't want to lose her and I won't. Everyone says love makes you do or think crazy things, but the "unknown" has that same affect. While I now honestly believe that the number of past partners is more than 3, I don't think it is more than about 7-8. Hopefully I am right. She used to go out a lot with her best friend who had a lot of one-night stands with guys she would meet that night. In short, her friend was a w****. My fiancee would tell me that her friend would meet some guy in a club and then ask my fiancee to come with her to the guy's apartment. Most of the time, the guy her friend met also had a friend who would accompany them back to the apartment. My fiancee told me that her friend would go in the bedroom and have sex with her guy while she waited in the living room with the other guy. She told me that nothing ever happened besides maybe the guy trying to steal a kiss because she made it clear that she wasn't that type of woman. She was only there to support her friend who she rode with to the club. Now all this stuff took place while my fiancee was single for 2 years in between her two past relationships. If she was lying to me, why would she talk to me about what happened. Maybe she knew I wouldn't question her about it. If she has had more partners than 3 and I do eventually find out, I must know if they were one-night stands or actual dating relationships. It makes a difference in my mind. I am rambling on and on now. I will check in later to read more from you insightful posters. Thanks everyone!
that doesnt make her friend a w****...that makes her a cool chick that knows what she wants...send her my way.
Quicksilver: I say this out of complete compassion...let it go. This woman, obviously, has suffered a great deal because of sex and she is probably very closed off as a result. Your judgements about how many partners she's had, what kind they were, how long they lasted, etc. will serve only to alienate her further. If you truly love her, realize that your NEED to find out all this information is only serving one purpose: to make YOU feel better. It sounds like you aren't the one that needs re-assuring in this situation. If you honestly cannot love a person because of her sexual past, maybe you should consider that a shortcoming of your own, not your partner. I know this is difficult for you, but put yourself in her situation. She has been abused sexually. It is more painful than you can possibly imagine. My mother has a good deal of her life counseling women who have been abused and the pain lasts for years, sometimes their entire lives. By pressing her on a subject that is painful, you are making it HARDER, not easier on her. Don't be a source of pain for her. She's had enough of that already. I'd strongly suggest that you pick up a few books on being in a relationship with someone who has been sexually abused. You'll be surprised what you find out.
Jeff, while I think your advice is right, I don't think I could act the way you are suggesting he should act - just let it go. And somehow I have the feeling that he will not be able to do it either. It will always bother him.
If it really matters then you're setting your relationship up for failure. It shouldn't matter...it was what it was. But now you are setting conditions, expecting the worst. The aingst you havefelt over this...is that what you want for the rest of your life? I believe that you love this woman. But the aingst will persist as you wonder about the truth. It reminds me of a question my father-in-law asks people as a hypo: Would you take what you desire the most in life if the trade off is that you spend the rest of your life feeling just a little queasy? In your case the queasiness is the aingst and worry about the truth. Just a thought...good luck Quick.
Dr Phil? Is that you? Jeff, I understand where you coming from . . but this TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM ideal is IMO wrong. I know sacrifice for the relationship is one thing. . . but it seems he wil be COMPROMISING WHO HE IS TO THE CORE. And again . . her sexual past is not the true issue. The fact that she lied. She seems to continue to lie about it it. And as he stated. . . he is feeling he will NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH. IF she is this good at lying and keeping the truth about one thing . . .why not others. THIS *IS* A TRUST ISSUE not a FIDELITY ISSUE. If he walks away from this . . and says ok . . .. You say well his love should allow him to forget it ever came up . . . much humanity says it will be a cancer that eats at his relationship. Rocket River
Rocket River, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I do agree with Jeff that he should let the past go, no matter how many people it was or what the conditions were if he's convinced that what they have now is real. BUT... the fact that she lied, and has stated her intention to continue not to be totally honest has to be very disturbing to Quicksilver. How can that build trust for the future? I would be fine forgiving almost any past if I felt that our future would be built around honesty and openess. Meanwhile things like this can eat someone up. It's someone that he loved and trusted, and then it turned out that things aren't what he thought. And it looks like he may never know the truth. It must be hard for him to feel like his partner is being honest and open. But his feelings are still strong. So there is that contradictory thing going on. Also she obviously doesn't want to lose him, but in his mind her sexual past could now be blown out of all proportion and he may not feel so special anymore. Because he doesn't know if he can trust her then how much should he believe what she's telling him now? I think that must be how it feels. I think total honesty and openess from all parties involved is the only thing that will help. Hell I could be very wrong though.
If he doesn't mind a woman with baggage that is up to him. When did drugs come up? Probably a poor attempt at sarcasm. In my life I dated women with so much baggage we needed a U-Haul to carry it...those relationships never worked out because it wasn't what I wanted long term. Quick needs to decide if he can handle his girfriend's baggage for the rest of his life.
I respect your opinions ref. Bad sarcasm, and harsh, but it would not surprise me to be true. That's my point ref. He's 22 years old. Everyone is giving him this advice to "go for it" if you are really in "love." He needs to run for his life. Sounds to me that she is playing him for a fool. Read his posts. If you were able to re-enter those "baggaged" relationships with your current knowledge would you still do it? Run away Quicksilver. Run away.
This advice sounds very harsh now, but I think the odds are higher that if you look back at this thread in a year or two, you will wish you had listened to Rashmon's advice.
