Salary advice

You couldn't have asked this in your other thread?

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=185237

It's not hard, man. They already have a starting salary for you. There are probably hundreds of other applicants who would accept whatever they offer. Just work hard your first year and you'll see a raise.

It obviously sounds like you don't have another job offer. If that's the case, just accept this offer, blow your signing bonus, and enjoy the next few months off.

 

Do you have anything to offer, other than youth and inexperience? College grads are a dime a dozen (I graduated a couple years ago, so I know the feeling), so unless you graduated from MIT or an ivy league school, you don't have much room for negotiation.

 

The reason I would hire someone straight out of college is to save money. I am willing to put up with a long learning curve if it does not cost me as much. If I wanted to pay more, I would hire someone with more experience. In other words, you really don’t have much to negotiate with.

In this economy, take what you can get, and look for better paying job after you already have a job.

 

They might not be strapped for money but they could have budgetary limits or since they've already seen your work they might not value you as much as you do yourself. My brother did petroleum engineering, the oil company he did his internship with paid for the rest of his tuition once he was done, if you are really good they will do what it takes to keep you.

 

The tuition thing was just an example, I wasn't comparing it to your situation, as I don't know anything about it. Your post made it sound like the company isn't offering you fair market value, I was just giving you my opinoin of why that may be.

 

A couple of things to consider.

If you are truly the person they want, they should have no problem with you countering their offer. If you don't go crazy with the counter, they will either come up a little, or if they are really offering the max, then they will just reiterate their initial offer.

Some things to consider:

Have you already told them what you are seeking? If you inititially gave them a number and they have come in on that, then you should not counter.

How big is the company? Most big companies have salary ranges for different job grades and there is quite a bit of leeway. If they really want you, its worth a couple grand more to get you and if its in their range, there is usually no problem.

Have you asked if the offer is negotiable? Its actually OK to talk to the recruiter, ask if the offer is negotiable, and then if they say yes, counter.

Stick pretty close to their initial offer. Companies always offer a little less than they expect you to take, so they can offer you a little more. If they offered $50K, say you'd like $55K, maybe they come back with 52K. DON'T say you want 75K when they offered 50. Stay within 10%.

You ARE a college hire. There is less leeway with your salary, but there probably is SOME. DON'T be cocky in the process. If you get too cocky or greedy, you'll start pricing yourself into ranges with actualy experienced people.

With all of this, an open and honest conversation with the recruiter can often net results.

With my last job offer, I was offered $X. I merely asked if the offer was negotiable. They came back with $X+10% and another week of vacation without me even truly countering. Now I was an experience hire, but you get the drift.

Remember, salary isn't the only thing negotiable. Maybe as a college hire, but perhaps there are some other perks/training/days off, etc. that they will be willing to offer.

Also, and this is somewhat cynical, but absolutely true: Don't take future promises of opportunies/raises over money now. Often those don't come to fruition. Manager is different, budget gets cut, someone else takes the position, etc. I hate to say, but the person that said take the offer, do good work, and the money will come...I disagree. Too many times have I seen people work really hard and never get the raises/promotions because budgets get cut, staffs change, etc. Its just the way corporations work now. The BEST time to get money is during the hiring process. Its always easier to throw a few grand at you when hiring than to justify a raise later when you are already working for them. You'll find this through your whole career. Your biggest raises in salary/benefits will be from moving/hiring on to new jobs and companies. Even the top performers usually get piddly raises year to year now. I guess what I'm saying is NOW is the time to get your cash, not when you are alreay employed by them.

 

I guess my last bit of advice is that through the whole process, act excited and thankful for the opportunity to work for their company. Make it clear by your words and actions, that while you feel your contribution may be worth a little more money, you are very excited about starting as soon as possible.

It MAY be helpful to have the actual average starting salary for your position within the industry and use that as a basis for asking for more.

 

It's always appropriate to negotiate when it comes to money.

 

so true.

Am I the only one who is laughing at a guy just out of college with no experience, obviously has a hard time making a decision, and is expressing their desire to negotiate a salary more than $60 K with just a BS?

You've got no leverage. And as a side note, your indecisiveness is observed by your potential employer and it is not attractive, whether you know it or not. If you like the potential and opportunity of this job...take it! stop worrying about "fair value" because honesty, your value is zero until you prove it to be more. you arent worth anything yet

if you cant handle that notion then

Spoiler

 

For a short time, I did hiring.

I think you are getting some really awful advice from peers, professors and career services.

Be careful taking advice from peers. Why would you ask a question to somebody who does not know more than you do?

As for my experience hiring for my business...especially for somebody with no experience, if somebody's first response to a job offer was to want more money, that person immediately became a pain the ass from day one.

Why would I hire a pain in the ass when I had a dozen other qualified people to choose from?

While I understand that you have some experience with their software, keep in mind that people can easily be trained to work with software. It is not a unique skill that cannot be duplicated.

That being said...best of luck to you on the beginning of your career.

 

Perhaps you can stall a little and get actual numbers from this other offer. If it is better, ask this company to match it. Right now, you have no BATNA. If you ask for more but have no credible alternative to the initial offer, they can just say no. If there is another position that pays more, they know you will walk away if they don't negotiate.

 

I've only been involved in hiring for small companies, but that was my experience too. Coupled with Valdez's advice, if you're going to ask for more money for a salaried position, you should have a basis for it.

If you can clearly demonstrate that your offered benefits/pay is less then industry standard or comparable opportunities, then do so respectfully. If you just want 'more' and your reason is that your peers told you not to accept the first offer you're much more likely to sour your relationship with the company.

 

I've done some recruiting for a big company similar in size to what you mention.

And when I joined them out of college, I negotiated.



No, I didn't have a ton to offer. But I was smart and qualified, and I knew I had done well in their interviews. They didn't have a problem with me asking for more money. They also didn't have a problem saying "sorry, this is as high as you're gonna get from us."

With company #2, they offered me a super low figure. I told them I had an offer much higher, and they'd have to come up a good amount for me to consider their offer. They said "nope, this is all we can afford". So I said no to them.

With company #3, I had actually interned with them during college. They liked me and wanted me back. When I told them I was likely going in another direction, they asked if it was about money. They were willing to up their offer by ~15% in order to beat the other company (but I turned them down).




My point? I think if you go about it in a nice way, it doesn't hurt to ask. And from the recruiting perspective, I never had an issue with anyone asking.

 

Smaller companies are less flexible. Bigger companies usually have a salary range for each position.

In my current job, the recruiter said the job would pay $XX,XXX. The company was fairly small, about 1,000-2000 employees across the country.

When I came back for the job offer presentation, they gave me $10k more than the recruiter had mentioned. I have no degree, but I have experience in working with computers.

They had been looking for people for months and felt I was the best candidate. The manager said that they have a salary range for each position and that they had flexibility in making the offer. The salary range is already determined by HR. I didn't ask for it, it was freely offered.

You have to look at it from their perspective. Will it cost them more money to search for somebody else? How much does it cost to train somebody with less knowledge and experience than you? You have to get an idea of the cost to the company of having the position unfilled or filled with somebody less knowledgable for a few months.

Figure out the additional cost of rejecting, and make your salary just below that. Don't give them an ultimatum. Just be relaxed and friendly. Show a curiosity.